What can labour do about immigration?

[CrispyEye]

Current poles showing Reform is way ahead of labour now. I’m so worried Reform will win the next general election if Labour don’t get a grip on this issue. And I say that as a Tory voter.

Realistically, what can Labour do, what should they be doing and do we think they will do it?

What's your AIBU?

It’s polls, not poles.

Stop playing reforms game. It's all they talk about and they have no plans for anything else

Refocus the conversation to other things, NHS, environment, economy etc and show how reform are an empty can

Obviously AIBU to worry that labour can’t fix this which will lead to a far right government

im looking for reassurance that labour could still turn this around

Predictive text - it’s obvious what I mean

They could break the business model of the small boats by allowing offshore processing of asylum seekers. It would increase the number of asylum seekers because people would no longer have to consider the many risks of the journey. More women and children would claim asylum via a remote system, and immigration would increase.
Identifying and processing individual asylum seekers could be done without them needing accommodation in the UK, they could make the journey via a regular route once asylum is granted.
They would be able to arrange housing and work upon arrival rather than living in a hotel without access to funds for an indeterminate period.
They haven’t done it because the press would eviscerate any party that did anything to make claiming asylum safer.

Reform can't deliver on what they promise so it's unlikely Labour will promise similar.

Farage was behind Brexit. Do you remember how better off we would be, how much more money for the nHS there would be? How did it turn out?

Ignore reform. I am.

What they should be doing is making the moral and economic case for welcoming immigrants, while also reopening safe, legal routes for asylum seekers and processing their cases fairly (that is how you "stop the boats").

What they will do is try to out-flank Reform on the far right with hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric, borderline incitement and a draconian Home Office that ends up deporting grandmas who've lived in the UK since they were 10 years old.

I am a Tory voter too OP and I share the same concerns as you about Reform and I think we could be looking at a Reform government in 3-4 years time. I mean, Labour didn’t exactly do that well in the local elections did they?

I'm worried to
I'm hoping the votes were all protest votes , trying to shock both main parties in to action around many important issues.
I have two disabled DC who will never live independently
That's fine while I am alive ,but I'm worried sick for when I'm dead ,what will happen to them .

They just need to demonstrably show that net migration is reducing.

The ‘learning’ of the last few years is that the government don’t have a grip on immigration at all, and have no idea how many people are entering the country or staying.

Actually having a system to do this would be a positive start.

Large scale immigration seems widely unpopular and it’s incredible given brexit etc political parties are still dithering around the edges.

Truthfully I think we need to continue using foreign workers but probably enforce as part of some Visa conditions they have no right to remain. Many other countries already do this.

Surely the solution is in your hands @CrispyEye ? If you feel strongly that Labour is the party to keep reform out and you are a Tory then you must vote Labour and remove the threat.

It's not obvious to me.

Labour aren't causing this, the rise in racism is.

We've already scared the poles off 😱

Not when you are talking about immigration.

Your AIBU wasn’t obvious either.

Well for starters they can help people understand that all the things Reform blame immigrants for are actually funding issues etc not caused by immigration!

Then put more resources into speeding up the asylum seeking process so people aren’t in limbo, sat in hotels unable to work, costing money for years - and then, as they do now, remove people with no claim.

They could work with other EU countries to tackle trafficking and process claims before people get on dangerous small boats

They could increase aid, do more around climate change and work with other nations to try and end conflicts

and invest in education, health and social housing so things improve for Reform voters and everyone else

but that’s going to cost money which they don’t have!

So are Labour and the Conservatives. So there are 3 empty cans. It's just that one spouts more platitudes about migration than the others. And it's the biggest issue for many people.

Reform, I hate to say it, are not far right. They're right, but there are much further right groups who hate Reform, from the right of them. You'll get a milktoast right in practice.

How do we invest more in health and education?

The problem is

• a massive amount of legal migration is uni students whose higher overseas fees essentially cross subsdidise what uk students pay. The uk students are actually paying via government provided loans, a lot of which aren't repaid, so this costs
• another big chunk of legal migration is healthcare workers from cheaper countries. If we cut off that the government a) will have to actually pay more competitively to stop our own trained doctors moving to australia/canada etc and b) will have to bear the cost of training our own doctors and nurses c) we will have to actually make social care a better paid/more attractive role for uk residents which will make it more costly to provide
• loads of the migration in flow is dependents of people coming to work and study. We assume we "need" these phd students and healthcare workers, but they come with huge cost as we educate and provide healthcare to their families. A massive issue is social care workers, who aren't that well paid so do not contribute a lot in tax but tend to bring dependents (eg kids). The majority of dependents coming with those on working visas come with people on health and care worker visas.

Improve the economy, better taxation of large companies for starters - it’s not easy or painless - and thus people fall for the ‘if we stop the boats and get rid of immigrants your lives will be better’ narrative- like thousands of social homes, schools places and GP appointments will magically appear!

Remember the Brexit bus?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/radical-reforms-to-reduce-migration

'The government inherited a chaotic immigration system that saw net migration soar to record levels – driven by a huge increase in overseas recruitment since 2020 ... It will establish tough new controls to restore order to a failed system that saw net migration almost quadruple to one million between 2019 and 2023.'

Those things you prize more mean everything, you would think, but sadly the immigration issues Reform like to focus on are the ones which are getting them most of their votes. So, unless Labour or the Tory Party play the game and come up with some solutions to calm people's fears, their votes will continue disappearing to Reform OR someone worse could spring up out of nowhere.

I'm not saying it's a good thing but it is a real thing.

You don't get to do a thing for "good" issues if you ignore "bad" issues. I know good v bad know is an oversimplification. It's intentionally so because different people have different ideas about which are which. If you do not get enough votes to gain power, you don't have the necessary power to help anyone with anything without having to kiss the ring of those who did take notice of voter's concerns, and they are not going to be your ally if you demonstrably think their policies/concerns/interests/intentions are beneath contempt.

People hold prejudice over all sorts, including things such as the NHS or environmentalism but they still possess a vote. It's pandering and can be quite distasteful, to put it mildly, but politics are distasteful and pandering may be required, more often than not. Plus, it goes both ways. You can't visibly be holding your nose while asking and expecting to take that vote. People who won't sully their morality at least a little by taking on the subjects they find unimportant/dispicable/stupid will stay on the sidelines forever.

TLDR; You have to win votes so will have to get your hands dirty.

Immigration is the single issue dog whistle that they will push the media and moron electorate to focus on.
The real issues that people care about are bins, dogshit, and potholes/parking.
The ten yards in front of your house, basically.
Reform can point to Birmingham and blame Labour.
Reform can point to various Tory councils and blame corruption.
Reform can point to all councils and blow the waste of taxpayers money whistle on 'woke nonsense'.
Reform don't have to offer any coherent or cogent solutions, they just have to point out the failures of the other parties and then imply that they will be different.
If you think that Reform can't be the next party of majority government you are wildly deluded.
Look at Trump.
That could happen here.
The UK is at least as thick and self-serving as the US electorate, if not more so.