What can labour do about immigration?

[CrispyEye]

Current poles showing Reform is way ahead of labour now. I’m so worried Reform will win the next general election if Labour don’t get a grip on this issue. And I say that as a Tory voter.

Realistically, what can Labour do, what should they be doing and do we think they will do it?

They could try actively making the factual case that immigration is actually good for the economy and we'd all be poorer without it. But given that that doesn't seem to have ever occurred to them over the last 15 years, I'm not holding my breath.

And they could try making genuine, structural changes to the economy, trade union relations and workers' rights, taxation of wealth, housing policy etc. to address and reverse the last 40 years of rampantly increasing inequality. But I'm not holding my breath on that either.

Labour plan to launch their new immigration bill later this week at which point we will see exactly what they propose to do, though this is apparently aimed at legal immigration at this point,at least some of the proposals depend on companies employing more people from the UK rather than going straight to people from abroad to fill posts, interesting to see if that ties in with the reforms to benefits

Considering that many potential Reform voters seem to believe that the UK should return asylum seekers to France, Labour could run a high profile campaign explaining exactly why that just isn't possible.

If Labour can do (and I mean DO - not just spout policy guff) anything they will be streets ahead of the useless tossers in power for the last 14 years.

I wish we all could. And I'm hoping they implode like Nigel's previous Parties.

Brexit had nothing to do with immigration.

I think they should reframe the discussion - we need immigrants both in the short term for skills shortages and in the long term because of declining birth rates.
I also think they need to make sure British people have good access to decently paid work and training or retraining to reduce resentment.
Stop the boats by creating a safe way to claim asylum status for refugees.

You're having a giraffe.

It makes you wonder if it’s a myth that so much migration is good for the economy.
There is essential migration (NHS, scientists, engineers etc) and then there is the rest.
The essential immigration should not be discussed in the same conversation as the economic immigration.
The fact that the GDP per head has not improved seems to indicate that the mass immigration has not improved the UK economically.
Otherwise as you said, would be an easy, easy win to have debates, publish the figures, show us the facts.
The old staple ‘we benefit from a culturally diverse population’ just doesn’t cut it anymore.

Why do you say that?

Yes. Countering Reform’s soundbites with facts, delivered clearly with no accusations of bigotry or racism (Labour’s favourite MO) would do far more than their current approach.

Farage says the stuff that some people want to hear, Labour turns round and insults them - not the way to win friends and influence people.

In truth I think politics is broken and whoever we have in charge won’t make any difference. Conservatives had over a decade to prove themselves and did FA. Starmer is approaching a year as leader and is apparently the least popular PM ever. Whatever happens from here is going to be a bumpy ride whoever is voted in. We should stop looking to politicians to fix this, they’re all as bad as each other in their own special ways.

The only changes they'll end up making will effect those of us on family/spouse/parent visas.... It's already becoming increasingly unaffordable for many but it's the easiest category to target

A lot of gaslighting on this thread.
The facts are immigration is at a record high at a time of terrible public finances ,crumbling services and homelessness. Calling the indigenous population thick and racist and doing nothing to address the issue is unfair and will return a Reform majority at the next election. Look at the US for goodness sake!

If I were in government I would:
-change the law as needed and invest heavily to massively speed up immigration processing. Keeping people here for years during endless appeals is unfair to everyone and hugely expensive. They should aim for a 6 week process.
-pay the UK population attractive wages to work in health and social care. Then mass immigration won’t be needed. People on low wages bringing over their families are cost negative.
-tighten up student visas so that people are unable to overstay.
-tighten up access to the NHS. Bring in identity cards.
-the boats are challenging. Offshore processing would possibly deter.

I'm no Labour fan for various other reasons, but it does look like they're trying to reverse some of the "Boris wave" immigration free-for-all now:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje72plqk17o

@Yellowhammer09 @EasternStandard - Nigel did a job on you two I see.

Labour have returned more illegal asylum seekers than the Tories did. Reform (and the Tories) don’t have any policies to control immigration - hopefully voters have enough sense to realise this.

I think they’ll chase headlines on things like language and just read one on degrees.

They’ve had so many similar in last few months it won’t address what’s driving support for Reform. Legal migration was a factor but not the only one.

I voted remain. But can you say more on why you think people voted Leave? Your post doesn’t tally with any voting analysis.

Perhaps your phrasing made it sound as if you thought it wasn’t a factor. You can see it was surely?

@CrispyEye I was listening to the radio this week where the topic of immigration was discussed, specifically focused on the bosses Farage and co make. The latest figures suggest that net migration is down considerably and that more people have been returned by the labour government in 9 months or so than the Conservatives managed in years.

Also, that the majority of the electorate don't understand the difference between an economic migrant, an asylum seeker, or an illegal migrant. Or how any of these three are processed.

The radio programme concluded that Labour could reduce illegal migration to zero and Farage would still be spouting the same populist bullshit, and that his followers would be so unaware of the facts, they'd continue to vote for him. I don't disagree.

With this, and the fact that migration has been proven in many studies to be a good thing, it is becoming farcical. You only have to look at the number of posts on here about it to see how ill informed people are about the realities.

They need a points system and to only allow people in if there is a shortage of those type of workers.

Poland has or had temporarily suspended people’s right to claim asylum. I think at some point they were being fined by the EU and probably still are. They have border patrols and physically stop people. They make exceptions but any able bodied person that turns up at the Belarussian border is not getting in.

As the child of immigrants I’m interested in immigration, family are from Hong Kong which was then part of the commonwealth.

Immigrant groups are just not all the same at all and the UK’s liberal attitude will be the end of it. My of Jamaican descent neighbour and I feel the same way. Our parents were invited as there were huge labour shortages at the time. Letting in swathes of men in who have positively medieval attitudes towards women is a huge mistake.

It's also worth saying that the local council elections were not country-wide. But yes, the foothold Reform has is a concern. Immigration massively increased under the last government from 2021. As an entirely predictable effect of Brexit.

@Yellowhammer09 - it was a vote about leaving the EU & regaining our 'sovereignty'. Nigel turned it into an immigration vote. Who can forget his poster?

But the very notion of Brexit, even prior to the referendum, was because of immigration. If we have complete sovereignty then we can stop mass migration. Obviously there's more to it than that but migration was one of the biggest challenges (and still is surprise surprise).

I also voted remain, thank you very much.

Most countries do not have our immigration problems because they have sensible controls.

1. Limit the total number of visas available each year.
2. Reinstate the requirement that all jobs be advertised locally and that British citizens be given preference for the job, with a stipulation that overseas advertising can only take place for specialist fields when a home applicant has not been found.
3. Require visa applicants to have a job offer that earns enough not the be a tax burden. This should increase if they have dependants.
4. Require visa recipients to have comprehensive private health insurance, with a small surcharge for potential emergency services use.
5. Consider introducing the Australian policy of charging to access state education for the first 3 or 4 years.
6. Break the direct link between residency and indefinite leave to remain / citizenship so that living and working here is seen as a temporary opportunity, not a permanent move.
7. Keep tabs on people who come into the country so that the government knows that they are doing what they said they came for and that they leave at the end of their visa term.

I think it’s perfectly acceptable to have high levels of temporary self-sufficient migration, as long as people go home and make space for a new person to have the experience of living and working in the U.K. It should enhance their career / enable them to save a bit of money / have a cultural experience of living overseas. It shouldn’t be an automatic route to citizenship.

No need to be a dick