Should a Brain Surgeon be up at night with a baby doing night feeds ?

[Mondaytuesdayhappydays]

Should a surgeon working full time, operating on patients each day be up with a baby at night doing 2/3 hourly feeds.

If they were operating in your child and had had only 3/4 hours sleep each night over the last fortnight would this be acceptable to you?

No

That is true of anyone who drives to work

No which is why people with more responsibility should get more money. If you’re a brain surgeon you can afford a nanny or for your wife to not work and if she’s a surgeon too you can afford night Nannies & intense childcare

Obviously not. Having a newborn is a horrific situation and you muddle through as best you can. But quite clearly if they do a job with a safety implication they do need their sleep, or some time off. Sadly you probably need the money they bring in.

Why is op allowing her brain surgeon husband do the night feeds and then wave him off to operate on people's brains 🧠

Is this question based on something that actually happened, in which case I would hope that the matter would be reported to the hospital by everyone with knowledge of it?

Or is OP justr trying to make a point that she is shattered with a new baby (which is entirely reasonable) and needs backup in a discussion with her partner, by invoking a fairly corny trope (I guess it was a toss-up between the brain surgeon and the airline pilot), thus unfortunately leading the discussion into hypotheticals about nannies?

Because it's not as if anyone's going to say "Of course, I am a brain surgeon and 4 hours sleep is luxury, I usually manage on 2!". (FWIW, I don't think any "brain surgeon" actually calls themselves a "brain surgeon".)

Have you read a different OP to me?

I agree - no neurosurgeon would call themselves a ‘brain surgeon’. Nor would their spouse. I think it’s a cover to protect OP/DH’s identity - and that the DH is in some sort of highly skilled profession where lives are at risk if they mess up. Pilot is a good call but it could be anything.

Either way, no, if you have a job where safety of other people is core, then no, you do not go into work exhausted because you’ve taken on doing the middle of the night feed. You take paternity leave or you rely on the mother of your child doing what women have done for millennia. You make it up to her when you are not on shift by taking day shifts so that she can sleep/bathe/get a break.

The last decade or so has seen doctors’ salary erode. During training (which can last for 15 years after medical school), the pay is not excessive (£70,0000) with no expenses reimbursed (medical license, college fees, portfolio, revalidation, exams and courses - all mandatory which is several thousand every year) plus all of the extra hours and shift work.

Then add in the fact that as a trainee you are moved around to different locations every year. You need to be in early as a surgeon - so few (to no) nurseries open early enough especially if you’re assigned to a hospital 1.5hr away.

When I was a trainee surgeon and had kids, I couldn’t easily afford a nanny - let alone a night nurse/nanny! After mat leave, I worked 80% which reduced the salary even more (because you lose a lot of the extra night/weekend pay). It was hugely stressful and a nightmare.

Air traffic controllers, lorry drivers and so on have rules about how long they can work and how often they take breaks. Not so for surgeons. Almost as if it’s the system that it is at fault here.

As the wife of a surgeon (not neuro but equally ‘life or death’) I can comment on some of this:

the surgeon presumably had a part in making the baby. They maybe should have put a plan in place for those obvious eventuality.

3-4 shifts in a row leads to far more sleep deprivation than a baby. The nhs is very comfortable with their drs being overworked and not well rested. Working time directives limit them to…72 hours a week. 72. Ridiculous.

people seem be assuming ‘surgeon’ means consultant with private clinic and therefore on 150k+. My husband was 27 when we had our first baby and qualified as a surgeon the same year. He was still in training so did not do private. I’m not a dr and my husbands back ground is very much working class.

We couldn’t afford it anyway but the idea that drs can just employ staff to do the parts of the lives that aren’t serving the Holy NHS is pretty depressing for the families. He wanted to care for his own babies.

The answer to this is better parental leave, shorter hours on operating days and better pay. Not making some poor breastfeeding mum take on all the childcare because ‘oh but he’s a surgeon’

I breastfed 3 kids past 18months including one who was up every 2 hours for a LONG time. My husband never suggested he shouldn’t ‘have to’ support me with this.

3-4 NIGHT shifts that should say

If a brain surgeon has decided to bring children into the world they should have been prepared to make whatever provision is necessary to ensure that their child is fed and cared for as appropriate and also that they are rested enough to do their job - so what's the problem - which part did they overlook or underestimate?

Not all surgeons have big private practices

We're assuming that the brain surgeon is male...

What if both mum and dad are neurosurgeons?
I would assume that that would plan their working week around each other.
I suspect this god like treatment of surgeons is only for male surgeons who have a wife sorting out everything else.

It's obvious the baby night feeder is her husband. She wouldn't know if a surgeon from the hospital was doing that. They have to be professional and not talk about their private lives. I used common sense and filled in the gaps.

Sorry I’ve been on nan duties today.
Sorry I meant neurosurgeon of that’s the correct term.

It DD and her DW my DIL

DIL goes back to work in a couple of weeks and wants to set up the spare room as a room she can rest undisturbed when working the next day.
DD will be a SAHP for the foreseeable, which is absolutely what she wants as
Baby is 4 moths old and bottle fed. Very nocturnal and is used to being held in arms a lot. Still waking a lot in night and colicky. Sleeps in their room.
Both are sleep deprived and stressed.
there absolutely is not enough money for a night nanny - and I think neither would be mortified at the suggestion of a stranger in the house. Plus I think DIL feels that this would be crazy as DD is at home and can rest in day etc.
DIL is very driven and quite practical but very no nonsense and is clear she needs her rest when working as the old days of pulling all nighters etc are well behind her.
She still has a way to go career wise I’m told (not sure I understand how the progression side of it works)

While DIL off they have shared everything and I have no concerns neither does not pull their weight.

DD is raging at the spare bedroom idea and saying lots of things along the lines of PP’s about sharing the load and DE needing to get on other it like any other professional.

I think DD is panicking maybe about being alone while DIL works long hours and then throwing the nights thing in has maybe tipped her over the edge.

The replies were very insightful tho.
Thankyou all x

DD is raging at the spare bedroom idea and saying lots of things along the lines of PP’s about sharing the load and DE needing to get on other it like any other professional

Your DD sounds immature and selfish. She will be the SAHP while her partner, a neurosurgeon, goes out to work. Getting up and doing night feeds shouldn't be expected at all. She clearly doesn't respect the nature of her wife's job and is only thinking of her own needs and wants.

Is it now 😄 did you indeed 😅

For the collic advise your DD and DIL to buy colief it's a life saver. Do they have a baby rocking chair also a life saver for when baby needs rocking to sleep. Your Dil needs to get her sleep as well and your dd can sleep in the day. I agree with your dil.

https://www.boots.com/colief-infant-drops-15ml-10190405?traffic=paid.shopping&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19973634862&gbraid=0AAAAA-AdmwSbfO3bP_mb9ho0laS4BVXfD&gclsrc=ds

Ah that’s so helpful - thankyou will check that out and pass on xx

The op updated after my post so pea off.

Yes I see your point totally. She is quite a ‘character’ my daughter. Lovely but can be hard work and very stubborn.
I think she’s run ragged ( both are)
Shes a perfectionist and I think mum life not going as smoothly as she imagined, is hard for her.
They are both late 30s also and If I’m
totally honest I don’t see the same level of energy and resilience as I or my peers had in early/ mid 20s with a first baby (I would never obviously say that in real life)

In the circumstances you describe, I think your DD is being unreasonable. If her wife needs the rest, she needs the rest, particularly as I presume your DiL is the main/only breadwinner, and they both rely on her abilities & skills for a nice lifestyle.