To ask my ex for more money, or use the CMS

[Florizelloid]

My Ex an I divorced a few years ago. He agreed to an amount that we calculated using the CMS calculator, and in the divorce agreement he said he was to send me his P60 and three months payslips every year.
He earns quite a lot more than I do, and it is quite a nice sum of money to have every month.
However, that amount is still the same as what we agreed to a few years ago, and he hasn't yet sent me a single payslip or P60. I had avoided asking for them as I didn't want to cause a conflict, however I finally got the courage to ask him for it yesterday.
He is refusing, I am not sure why, he said it is because it will give me his NI number and UTR number. He did send me a wage statement from his employer, which would indicate (using the CMS calculator) that with our current arrangement he is underpaying me by a fair bit. When I pointed this out, he first asked for a 50:50 child care split. I pointed out that this wouldn't work with his job (he commutes several days a week and often has evening meetings) he said he could make it work. Then he said that I didn't need any more, as looking after the children wasn't getting any more expensive.
He also said that if he got promoted and his pay doubles, then it wouldn't be fair for him to pay any more to me.

I can live fine on what he is giving me together with my full time wage, it just irks me that he isn't meeting the terms of our agreement, and every time I raise the question of maintenance he starts to demand more time with the kids. I find his attitude really upsetting, but I also wonder if I am being greedy, especially when the kids come back after a weekend with him asking what their Daddy has to pay child maintenance for.

I am also getting sick with stress, at work as well as trying to deal with him, and help my daughter who is going through puberty, coping with suspected Autism/ADHD, and has started some still thankfully very minor self-harming, and suicide threats. With all this I am wondering how much longer I can keep up my full time hours. I had some time off with this earlier in the year, but it is getting worse again.

I have said that I will contact the CMS if he doesn't start to send his P60s and wage slips as he agreed, but he regards this very much as the nuclear option. I don't want to cause more conflict, and I don't want to get in to a massive argument about the arrangements for the kids, and I really don't want to have to talk to my lawyer again, so am I being unreasonable to say this?

OP I have been going through CMS for a year now (after XP started paying less and less and less) and I really recommend it.

It was a nightmare at first - when his first CMS letter arrived he went absolutely ballistic - but he has settled down now. CMS is based in Northern Ireland and the advisers are really professional and no nonsense - they don’t take sides but they make it clear that if anyone is lying to them or messing about they will not accept it, and if someone refuses to pay then they can take really drastic action.

What I like about it is that none of it is my doing - it’s their calculation, he cannot blame me if they decide to increase it. If he doesn’t pay it’s not me that chased him. They also do an auto-re-assessment of his income every year based on PAYE data and tax returns (if applicable) so they don’t need either of us to submit any data.

One exception is that if you know your XP has “extra” non PAYE income (eg rental income) which doesn’t show up on a payslip and hasn’t been declared on a recent tax return, you as the receiving parent have to ask CMS to investigate it.

The other exception is if your XP is a very high earner or lives off capital - you’d have to take him to court.

oh and also @Florizelloid - it is not true what your XH said.

One of the CMS advisers told me last year that for 99% of paying parents, it takes 20 minutes max to go online using the link sent in their initial letter and fill in the necessary information, none of which is complicated. You can do the whole thing without speaking to anyone if you want.

The CMS only give hassle when the paying parent is being awkward or aggressive or ignoring their letters (as mine did). The CMS adviser said their target is to resolve all cases within two weeks (so receiving parents get the children’s money asap) so they get very impatient with parents who ignore letters.

Did you read the hit about her daughter's increasingly challenging issues? She's not considering shorter hours so she can get her nails done. All he had to do is adjust a standing order, she's the one who is there 24/7 dealing with the stress and emotional rollercoaster of a struggling teen. He's not "subsidising her" he's providing appropriate support to allow his daughter to be parented as needed.

Awkward and aggressive, that's him :-D Oh well. Very nice young man with a lovely northern Irish accent spoke to me on the phone just earlier to confirm the number of days the kids are with me. An hour or two later I get a decision. They are fab. ♥CMS❤😍

I do know others with more awkward Xs, including a trust fund kid (of 40 something) who is recklessly spending his money on flights and unsecured loans just so he doesn't have to pay my friend anything. He is a total 💩
I know her lawyers are on the case, I just hope for a Judge who isn't a family friend of theirs..

CMS do give you all the other parents financial information which I think is an awful breach of GDPR and I can’t understand how they justify providing that information to someone who has no obligation to keep it confidential and can share it however they see fit. BUT if he doesn’t like that the easier option would be to redact his NI on his payslips etc and provide it as you previously agreed.

But from what you are saying, he is giving you a decent amount anyway.
I'd let it go.
IMO, you are coming across as greedy

I would have your solicitor write a warning letter to him regarding his conversations with the children - highly inappropriate and not child focused.

Also, is the P60/payslip stipulation part of the consent order you did when you were divorced? If so, he is in breach and you can enforce.

Finally does he earn more than £156,000 gross? If so you can make a claim for top up maintenance under Schedule 1 of the Children Act

The money is for the children. He is underpaying what CMS would expect. Why should anyone let this unpleasant man not pay what his children are entitled to?

What is "a decent amount"? None of us can say what's the right amount. That's why it works on a % of income. No resident parent gets to ring fence a % of their income and say that's it. The OP has said he is underpaying according to CMS which is not a generous % so no she's not being greedy 🙄

Say what now @Praying4Peace ? Since when is wanting the minimum amount the Government has decided a non-resident parent should be providing to support their children "greed"?

He is disgusting involving the dc in this way. I’d tell them what child maintenance is, and that it’s purely for this benefit and good parents don’t discuss this kind of stuff with their dc.

I do think CMS is inherently flawed but it’s just a broad brush for a complicated equation.

If your argument is that you can't cope full time and will need financial support to drop hours, won't he be seen to be offering a resolution by asking to do 50/50 childcare? I think i'd probably play this one carefully if he wants to go down that route, especially if you get a decent amount of money already.

To be fair. CMS does SOMETIMES seem a bit unfair to me.
I know someone who has his kids 2 nights / 3 days a week and provides everything for those days. But he still has to pay a really high amount of cms. High earners have to pay alot whether it's a suitable amount or not. Low earners get away with hardly paying anything.

I think i'd pick my battles if I was getting a decent amount and not struggling. Then you won't have any custody arguments and will have a bargaining tool if the ex has another child & wants to reduce payment etc.

Except that CNS usnt about to provide ‘enough’ furvtye dcs. It’s about trying to keep the standard of living they had when their parents were together.
And if that amount of money is high, it just reflects they would have a lot when together too.
Not ‘more’ or ‘excessive’ amount of money that isn’t necessary.

Unless of course you think children are only allow the bare minimal, no more.
Or that fathers should be off the hook is mum is earning well enough not to be desperate fir money.

What about their financial responsibility towards their child?? Not worth upholding if they aren’t in dire poverty?

You are missing the point. The beauty of CMS is that it takes away most of the power of XPs to bully or manipulate you and it gives you some certainty and clarity. No one can guilt or threaten CMS because it is impersonal and works using a process and formula that is the same for everyone, and it is the law that you must pay.

Once you withdraw a CMS application you are opening yourself up to more manipulation. Whatever happens all becomes your fault again.

What a twat your DH is.

@Florizelloid given your update I wonder if it is time to have a girl to girl chat with your DD about all the shit stuff in life that being a woman entails? Maybe buy her a copy of Invisible Women as a kick starter. Then you can talk about things like maternity rights/PND/mothers making most of the career sacrifices for having children etc that they don't teach in school. As part of that you could point out that a lot of marriages end in divorce (as well as non married parents splitting up) and that the norm still is for the DC to stay with the mother and that her career opportunities continue to be stymied by that whilst the fathers usually manage to carry on and progress and that it is important that the children are protected so that they don't end up in poverty whilst their rich father jets off and ignores them. Then just drop into the conversation that this is becoming more recognised by the state and the courts so there are legal formulae to ensure that parents provide for their children and that you and her father are bound by these as much as anyone else. Sell it as a lesson mothers need to teach their daughters about in protecting their finances children pension and career as she gets older etc.

Oh my. All I want is him to do what he agreed to do. Is that so bad? He is in breech of our divorce agreement and trying to bully me in to letting him get away with it. The CM/S reckoned he’s earning twice what he told me, perhaps it is not me who is being greedy.

I really didn’t want to have to go to my solicitor, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask for advice. The P60 and payslips were in the consent order stated after the CMS not having jurisdiction, so he is in breech. According to the CMS he earns more than twice what he told me, which is definitely over that limit.
May be I’ll send an email to the solicitors.

Cms immediately

what a cheeky fucker he is

Oh I wish I could. She has always seen her Daddy as perfect, though she does get cross with him sometimes, she is incredibly sensitive to anything she thinks is me criticising him. This includes her telling me that feminism is toxic, something I'm pretty sure he'd have said. Anything I could say that might be misconstrued as criticism of her dad would be an instant red flag to her.

Tell him he's got by end of May to provide you with P60 abd that you will apply to CMS on 1st June if he doesn't provide the information.

Maybe give her a copy of invisible women anyway and see what she thinks?

Just do it. Hes had his chance.