Young adults, rent, chores

[Brunocatmon]

My ds is almost 22, he lives with me as does his gf, she's 21.

My 14 yr dd lives here too.

In a couple of months more dc will be coming back from living overseas but for now it's just us.

Ds and K have their own downstairs room, access to any food, utilities, bathrooms, shared shampoos etc. They each pay £150 per month. They both work p/t in hospitality.

Dd 14 is in school.

I work, often 8, 10, 13 hour shifts.

I have made a few house rules such as clean up after yourself.
Put recycling etc straight away into correct places.
Put rubbish out if bin is full etc.
Clean up after yourself in bathroom.
Nothing awful.

Today I have a split shift so 4 hours this morning, home for a while, back to work for 4 hours at 4pm.

I came home to last night's pots and pans still dirty ( we have a dishwasher ),
Rubbish bin completely overflowing,
Bathroom light on.....
And, the fucking tumble dryer on. It's a million degrees outside and we have a washing line.

I feel disrespected and it's making me sad. I've had the same conversations over and over again but I'm just moaning.

How do I ensure young adults follow the very few house rules that I have.

I've just spent £45k renovating the house, new bathrooms, kitchen, utility, their room and they just don't seem to care.

It's very depressing

Neither of them have any friends. Gf used to dance in Ireland but doesn't do that here despite me showing her places that she could go to.

Ds has a couple of friends who are friends of my older ds. He is a dj ( ds 21 who lives with me ) and will sometimes get a gig but he's just starting out so he's not well known yet and doesn't drive so he has to rely on the one friend.

OMG with your last update, the GF sounds an absolute PITA and a complete drama queen. You are just way too nice with your not wanting to invalidate both their behaviour.
They are using their various illnesses to manipulate you.
I bet your own MH isn't any too good either, but of course you have to keep soldiering on because god forbid a middle aged mum have any MH issues. They seem to be the preserve of the young.

We charged DS 23 £200 a VP month and abuse from the occasional reminder about plates and glasses, he was great. I would have hit the roof if he’d tumble dried in weather like this!

It’s time to get tough. I’d make this a lot more formal. Do you have a printer? if so, type and print an agreement on what needs to be done and list recent incidents where they have disrespected the arrangements.

Tell them they have one month - May- to turn this around, or the locks will be changed and they will be out. Hand it to them, tell them it is not up for discussion, they are taking the piss and it ends now.

Why would they have to live on the streets if they're both working?!?! 😂

No abuse - should read ‘apart from’!

But they won't do this when they absolutely know that he being her son allows them to behave in this way.

They know exactly how to play the game and know that finally, whatever they do or won't do, this "he is her son" card trumps all.

They've been there almost 2 years? I missed that.

You've got a failure to launch and he's brought another along to the Hotel Mom where they don't have to do shit.

He's angry over being bullied some years back? What does he think he and his GF are doing to you leaving your place trashed after you come home from work that supports their useless asses? They're bullying you expecting you to step and fetch like you're their servant while supporting them.

Their consequences from me would be a notice to vacate and they and their shit would be out in 30 days.

You could stop supporting them. They get nothing but a roof. No food. No wifi for the TikTok. They can take their shit to the Laundromat. No transportation. The Bank of mom is closed.

Thank you so much for all of the really helpful comments on here.

I do feel like I've had enough. It's not a great atmosphere for my younger dd either and it's absolutely not a great message as a pp said, to be giving her.

I'm going in. Wish me luck.

Be strong. Take no prisoners. They're living in TikTok fantasy land and you're paying the price.

Good luck, but stand firm. It's time they both left home - help them become fully fledged adults by making them leave your nest.

I do feel the obsessive focus on young people's various anxieties ignores the fact that hard-working parents also have anxiety in this climate. Particularly single mums. If I told DH I had social anxiety and refused to go to work, he would not be happy and would pack me off to the GP. Why is it ok for some?

I too have young adults living at home because of London rents. It's hard on everyone. Therefore we all have to make rules, rather than just put ourselves last. These rules can be different- for instance, I charge no rent because it's a cultural no-no for me and I can afford not to- but I expect them to do their own cooking/washing/ cleaning, be polite, and work as hard as they can. One is in full time work, one is studying. This works for me, but both are already making plans to move out as I don't allow partners!

Agree with working out the cost of all bills and adjusting their rent accordingly. Even if they only paid half of their share it will probably be more. Time to toughen up as they have got used to this very cushty and frankly lazy lifestyle. My so. Was the same when he left school but ended up with 3 pub jobs that he used to save money for travelling (where he is now living the dream!) and to pay his rent. Presumably you don’t still pay for phone, gym or other leisure activities? If you do this needs to stop. I would also:

Warn there will be an increase of rent from 1st June based on calculations (& show them what rent on a one bedroom without bills will cost!)
both get 2nd pt job or find full time work
anyone not working full time takes responsibility for certain chores (meal cooking for example include doing the shopping to demonstrate quite how much they cost plus prep & planning to help them grow up a bit )
Basic chores list for the whole house
non compliance and they need to move put out by end of July.

I would read @Lentilweaver's comment to them! Particularly -

I do feel the obsessive focus on young people's various anxieties ignores the fact that hard-working parents also have anxiety in this climate. Particularly single mums. If I told DH I had social anxiety and refused to go to work, he would not be happy and would pack me off to the GP. Why is it ok for some?

well if she’s not going to find a full time job or pull her weight, then back to Ireland she goes!

they can live together when they both work full time and find a house to rent.

Regardless, you need to get tough as it's affecting you financially and mentally not to mention the affect that it's having on your younger daughter. It's not your job to find them somewhere to live or jobs they're old enough to do that for themselves.

Many MNers were married with a mortgage at 22 & some with children.

You need to be prepared to evict them I'm sure that they will discover that they have people who they can stay with if it comes to that. They're not telling you so that you feel guilty & honour-bound to look after them.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being a bitch, but I've done it & it paid dividends. DS split from GF after I chucked them out & is now partnered with a 2 bed flat & baby on it's way.

I'm still in touch with the XGF who has a 2 year old daughter, is going to get married in August & I've been invited to the evening 'do'.

They both say that, although they hated me at the time & thought I was being unreasonable, that, on reflection, they were the unreasonable ones & that I did the right thing.

Time to Stand up for yourself and your 14 year old.

Sending some NYC vibes.

Also are they in a long term relationship or are they together because it’s too hard to move on -you making it so cheap and easy for them.

Bill them!
Dirty dishes? £5. Bins overflowing? £2. Dryer on when not needed? £5. Bathroom light left on? £1. Etc
And bill them as a unit, ie you don’t care who was at fault, they can pay you and sort it out between them.
Obviously let them know in advance but then do it with no exceptions - hopefully this might change their behaviour.

Waiting for your update - good luck. Remember MNers got your back 😘

I suspect that may be the case for the GF. She's got it easy hasn't she?

Just tell them you're putting the rent up as you're not willing to keep subsiding them as it's not preparing them for living independently and they can't live with you indefinitely. Make it clear you expect them to move out in the next 12 months and in the meantime cut right back what you do for them.
You're partly enabling their lack of maturity.
Don't wash up after them, don't make meals - if you're currently feeding them you could just cut that out? Would be the same as putting the rent up.

I have a 21 year old who used to also leave a mess around. I made it clear that, as it’s my house, I set the standard that needs to be met in all communal areas and I will charge the going rate for cleaning if I come home to a mess. I tracked every bit of extra cleaning to the nearest 15 minutes over a month, provided regular updates and presented her with a (rather large) bill at the end of the month. She thought I was joking lol. Between DD and her boyfriend they mostly keep it clean and tidy now (I let some things go as I can see the improvement) so hitting them in the wallet worked for me and also treated them as adults rather than children.

@Augustus40 they can use their brains to figure out internet access instead of being pisstaking freeloaders. Mobile data (paid for by themselves) or libraries exist.
Not sure why a previous poster mentioned them living on 'the streets' when they're both capable of finding somewhere to rent like other functional adults.

OP people have suggested consequences for the adults in the thread. Letting them use your property, utilities and possessions is a choice that you can change at any time.

I was just about to write the same comment, bill them. Advise them honestly how it makes you feel.

You could allow them the first offence - e.g. you remind them of rule. If it happens again £5, if again £10 but ensure it goes up after 1st offence. My DD has this rule in her house share - a housemate gets a chore has a week to complete. If they don't do it after a week are charged £5 or first round of drinks in the pub.

good luck

OK I'm back.

It wasn't a very long conversation because ds cuts me off with " ok fine, I get it"

I told them rent is going up next pay day to £250 each. Ds asked why, I said because I can't afford to subsidise you both. " ok fine"

I said you both need to be looking for full time jobs. Ds responded with I have a full time job. I questioned how many hours he does and said 20 hours is not a full time job. For instance he's been called off today as its quiet.

I said gf needs to be in full time work as soon as possible.

I also said I'm going to draw up a rota for communal areas.

My eldest dd is moving in with her partner and 2 dc ( 5 and 2 ) at the beginning of July as they are coming back to the UK. They'll be living with us whilst they find and buy a house, i imagine that'll be a few months. She'll be working part time and we've already discussed how it will work but she won't stand for people not pulling their weight.

I'll have my just 18 yr dd back too as they live together and she's coming back to the UK too. She works.

I've told ds and gf that we're going to have a full house so we all need to be on the same page.