Ok who wants to swap £2500 a month in benefits for my husbands MS and my epilepsy, narcolepsy and fibromyalgia.

[bluebirdblackbird]

Well according to a lot of people on here we are on a good thing.

the 20 seizures I have in a week, chronic pain and night terrors, losing my memory after a seizure, pissing myself, hallucinations. They are all great fun. Not to mention the amount of times I have been accused of being drunk after a seizure.

or there is my husband. Diagnosed with progressive MS. Cronic Pain, shaking, cronic pins and needles, weakness in limbs plus losing mobility. Had to give up his teaching job 4 months ago after gradually reducing hours.

Not to mention the judgement when we use a blue badge because we look ok in that moment. And apparently labour are going to find us both work. Yippee cant wait to meet the employer who is going to take us both on. I am sure pissing my chair on a reg basis won’t matter to them or the losing counciouness at least a couple of times a day.

i am just fed up of yet another they are on benefits and get money and it’s not fair stamp stamp stamp. The bastards have saved up for a holiday- it’s not fair. The bastards have a mobility car but they look fine, OMG- they have got new carpets or a new sofa.

since I am guessing they none of the moaners would actually swap places with us if they could then STFU.

oh and that pip that is easy to get- my husband gets lower rate for both and that is despite providing all the evidence and appealing so we are off to tribunal. He can’t even dress himself most days and he can’t hold a pan safely or manage his medication plus many other things. If he stays on the points he is on he will lose his pip completely under these new labour proposals.

but most people know someone who’s friends, aunts, nephews, stepdaughters, cousin twice removed who lied and got it. I was taking to a lady in a wheelchair who does not get any mobility component of pip at all.

Yes, I know. I'm a disabled wheelchair user. The OP said she walks the equivalent of a marathon, daily. So reliably, repeatedly and in a suitable time frame. Again, to get the mobility component of PIP, there are a number of criteria, and this absolutely doesn't qualify.

The rest of what you've said isn't true. When I first applied for PIP, I was quite literally confined to bed. I am significantly disabled and will not recover. I needed constant care, couldn't move, bathe, dress, eat, nothing. They gave me zero points.

The OP doing her daily marathon and claiming PIP comes across as quite ridiculous.

I don't think it was the OP that claimed this, was it? I thought it was another poster...

So you think disabled people should live in poverty? When you are disabled enough that you cannot work ALL you get are benefits. You have no way to “better yourself” and opt to retrain to get a different job to pay for things you cannot afford. You are limited by the amount of money you get given. Plus being disabled is expensive. A disabled person or household is going to have (often significantly) greater costs than a non disabled person or household. I don’t think our most vulnerable in society should be forced to live in poverty worried about putting the heating on, or whether they can afford to eat or afford things that enable them to live a normal, reasonably comfortable, life. They should be able to furnish their homes, take a reasonably priced holiday, have transport. They shouldn’t have to live miserable small lives just because they are disabled. They are already v living with chronic ill health, restricted mobility or chronic pain etc etc, why would you want them to have money worries on top?

As someone that has lived hand to mouth in the past and now has chronic illness but no money worries (I don’t claim benefits), I can tell you which I’d rather. I’d go back to having no money if I were healthy. Nothing restricts your life more than disability and ill health. Thank god we have an income though. My life is pretty miserable and difficult. I’m not even sure if still be here if I was worried about money on top and couldn’t afford some of the things I pay for to make life more bearable. Begrudging sick and disabled people a reasonable income is just horrible quite frankly, and not something I want or would expect to see in a civilised society.

Working people live in poverty. Who work full time and have to pay for everything themselves who get no government help whatsoever.

Well ideally no one should live in poverty. But people who are fit and well have choices that disabled people don’t have. They could retrain, get themselves better jobs with more pay, they even have more options when it comes to moving so could move to a cheaper area. Disabled people who can’t work don’t have those choices. On top of this fit and well people also don’t have the costs that disabled people have, so on the same income, disabled people would be worse off.

So you want all these teaching assistants, supermarket staff, care worker (who are skilled and have lots of qualifications btw) to just 'get better paid jobs' when their jobs are vital to the community?
People who have spent time in their chosen field training up to the highest they can be, yet still get paid peanuts as their work just doesn't pay well.

You cannot just 'move to another area' if you don't have the money to move. It can cost thousands to move.

Working people who are entitled to no help from the government are no better off. We have to find everything ourselves. Mortgages. Rent. Council tax. Prescriptions if needed.
People think that working people are better off financially. Trust me they are not.

I don’t think working people are better off financially. That’s not what I’ve said at all. And I don’t want anyone to find different jobs if they don’t want to. My point is that if they want to, they can. They have options. Disabled people who can’t work, don’t have any options. If they can’t afford the heating bill they will just have to be cold. Or be in debt. They don’t have the option to work more hours or get a better paid job. Plus they have more costs than a non-disabled person, so if they gad the same income as one of the workers you mention, they’d be poorer.

No, we want them to back off being jealous of disabled people. It's pathetic.

Trust me they are. I have to find everything myself too. On £400 a month. It's no different because I don't work. It's actually much, much worse because not only am I in agonising pain 24/7, and wearing adult nappies before I hit 40, but people hate me for it because apparently I'm better off than people who work. Poor dabs.

I agree there should be more support for low income households and individuals because many people cannot retrain or get a better paid job (and nor would we want them all to, as you quite rightly point out, we need carers and child care workers among other essential professions). But at the same time, people who earn minimum wage or not much more do actually have a higher income than many disabled people, myself included. My income is around 50% of minimum wage despite being too disabled to work. And the costs my disability generates are higher than the entirety of what I receive. I would live with severe malnutrition were it not for my parents helping financially. My partner doesn't earn much more than minimum wage. The fact is that while some disabled people get enough to live off from the state, many now don't. We really need to get people on board with raising taxes on higher income earners. We are a low tax country despite what they'd have you believe. We pay less than the OECD average.

PIP will be tip of the ice berg of the benefits received fraudulently

@Fireandflames repeatedly says on the PIP review thread and others that she can’t possibly work because every day she wakes up feeling like she has extreme flu and can barely move her joints.

We can only hope that if @Fireandflames lets slip on mumsnet that she leads a “very busy life” and walks an average of 28000 steps a day… that she’ll let slip something to DWP eventually or, more likely, someone will report her.

No, we don’t need to “get people on board with raising taxes on higher income earners”. The average tax rate of the highest earners in the UK is already higher than a lot of other countries. To bring us in line, we would need to tax middle income earners more and increase employers NI contributions. Judging by how well that’s gone down recently, I cannot see that happening.
The public sector needs a massive overhaul in terms of efficiency. Waste needs to be addressed. Cutting benefits for people who cannot earn is a bad idea, but adding to the already large tax burned of the highest earners, who can and will leave, is also not good business sense.

So you think that should be the yardstick by which we measure how disabled people live ? The difference here is choice.

As previously said in my other post. Working people who work full time struggle financially and do not have the choice if they are not earning that much as they cannot afford to move. Upskill etc (and why should they upskill if they are skilled in their jobs in the first place, such as care work)

Time, money. Working people are stuck in a rut as well with no way out.

Exactly. Working people who work long hours are burnt out and cannot do anymore.
Got told I am 'jealous by another poster! What on earth...

This is such an interesting thread. I agree with a lot of what @Bumpitybumper has said.

Philosophically I believe there should be some ‘universal’ benefits such as child benefit and winter fuel allowance, however I can see that the tide has turned on that, and why.

I believe that those in receipt of benefits should be able to spend them on whatever they like. However I understand the argument that they are not ‘for’ holidays and luxuries and I think this belief inevitably grows as more and more people not in receipt of benefits struggle with the cost of living.

I’m angry with the Cameron govt for inflicting austerity on us and then Brexit. I don’t like this govt but they are playing with a wholly different hand of cards and it’s not a good one.

As a country we’re getting poorer fast and we’re probably never going back to a relatively generous welfare state. In an ideal world there would be more support for those who need it … that’s not going to happen if the number of those who qualify is too large, and you could argue that cutting so that only those in the most dire need receive help is one way of managing this. It is really unpalatable and I do believe that lots of people are going to see their standard of living and quality of life fall. I’d like to believe otherwise.

What strikes me from threads on here recently, though, is not a lack of empathy from non-benefit receivers to disabled people but the opposite. Very very little empathy for low earners who may have all kinds of health problems as well as the other problems that come with low income. No empathy at all for higher earners - who may also have health problems - paying a LOT of tax to support the benefits system. All of this against the backdrop of rising cost of living. A feeling of entitlement to higher earners’ money via tax while insisting - often with insulting accusations about others’ ethics - that benefit recipients have an absolute right to a certain standard of living. It’s not hard to see why people’s mindsets might be changing along the lines that @Bumpitybumper suggests. Shouting about that and setting up straw man arguments won’t change it.

Wherere did I say I was jealous ? Why are you attacking me thinking I am jealous ?
I am just saying how it is for working people as well. We sure do not have it easy either.

Didn’t really answer the question did you ? Do you think the lowest level of working income is something we should use when deciding the level of benefit paid to those unable to work because of disability ? There is a failure to understand the difference between disability benefits and sickness benefits.

Sickness benefit, like unemployment benefits are an income replacement benefit. Universal disability benefits like PIP are paid on top in recognition of the extra cost of living with significant disability. PIP is paid to those who work - again in recognition of the extra cost of their condition. And it’s paid at a level appropriate to the level of disability. The problem, as l said upthread, is that people only see the extra money and not the disability, and they think these benefits are handed out like sweeties, when in fact the opposite is true.

I didn't get many points in mobility, mine is for daily living as I struggle with several other disabilities....but you know, keep judging people for trying to keep healthy and stay alive.

Walking is easier than standing and sitting for me with medication, but apparently because I do this then I must be ok. Ignore all my 40 pages of medical evidence though 😑

From google.

"For people with fibromyalgia, walking can often feel easier than standing still. This is because standing, especially for extended periods, can be particularly challenging due to symptoms like muscle weakness, fatigue, and stiffness. Walking, while also requiring energy, can involve a degree of movement that may actually provide some relief or a change in posture that can be more comfortable".

Indeed walking can be easier

you however describe yourself on other threads as constantly feeling like you have severe flu including nausea, plus debilitating joint pain.

and you truly think walking a marathon a day is achieve if the above is true?

Im guessing you do this around the house rather than out and about? For fear of being reported by those who know you’re on benefits and don’t work but see you out storming for streets for mile after mile every day?

On the pip review thread you explicitly say and repeatedly that it is for your very poor mobility that mainly prevents you from working

For individuals with fibromyalgia, a starting point for walking is 5-10 minutes daily, gradually increasing by 30 seconds to a minute each day. The goal is to work up to 30 minutes to an hour, three to four times a week. If you start to struggle, reduce the duration and increase it again after a few days.

Not a marathon a day