Ok who wants to swap £2500 a month in benefits for my husbands MS and my epilepsy, narcolepsy and fibromyalgia.

[bluebirdblackbird]

Well according to a lot of people on here we are on a good thing.

the 20 seizures I have in a week, chronic pain and night terrors, losing my memory after a seizure, pissing myself, hallucinations. They are all great fun. Not to mention the amount of times I have been accused of being drunk after a seizure.

or there is my husband. Diagnosed with progressive MS. Cronic Pain, shaking, cronic pins and needles, weakness in limbs plus losing mobility. Had to give up his teaching job 4 months ago after gradually reducing hours.

Not to mention the judgement when we use a blue badge because we look ok in that moment. And apparently labour are going to find us both work. Yippee cant wait to meet the employer who is going to take us both on. I am sure pissing my chair on a reg basis won’t matter to them or the losing counciouness at least a couple of times a day.

i am just fed up of yet another they are on benefits and get money and it’s not fair stamp stamp stamp. The bastards have saved up for a holiday- it’s not fair. The bastards have a mobility car but they look fine, OMG- they have got new carpets or a new sofa.

since I am guessing they none of the moaners would actually swap places with us if they could then STFU.

oh and that pip that is easy to get- my husband gets lower rate for both and that is despite providing all the evidence and appealing so we are off to tribunal. He can’t even dress himself most days and he can’t hold a pan safely or manage his medication plus many other things. If he stays on the points he is on he will lose his pip completely under these new labour proposals.

but most people know someone who’s friends, aunts, nephews, stepdaughters, cousin twice removed who lied and got it. I was taking to a lady in a wheelchair who does not get any mobility component of pip at all.

Disabled from birth. Worked for over twenty years as a disability outreach worker. Now I volunteer for various disabled organisations and charities helping with benefit applications and various other disability related issues. Currently sit on the board of the local branch of ASBAH - the organisation supporting those with spina bifida and hydrocephalus. I was also on the editorial committee for WeAreSpartacus - the main disability advocacy group campaigning against the replacement of DLA with PIP until it was clear that come hell or high water it was going to happen. Then we concentrated on getting some of the harsher elements of eligibility and assessment softened - we were partially successful but nowhere near enough.

I agree there are lots of people that could do something. You’re blithely proposing that disabled people could set up business by themselves, and undoubtedly some could. But they would still need support. And as I pointed out upthread, the thrust of this latest round of cuts is targeted at getting the more significantly disabled off benefits and into work - these are people who have previously never been compelled to work, or even look for work because they are considered too sick/disabled to sustain employment. Many have been unemployed for years and are going to require significant support to get them into work. To suggest that these people are capable of actively looking for self employment opportunities and able to to run a business is just ludicrous.

This.

I said on here that I sew. I make little felt animals that I make for charity. Little felt dogs for dog rescues etc. I was told I can set up my own business and make clothing. And post them on the Style and Beauty board
I said making little felt animals and clothing are worlds apart and was told I was making excuses.
Making anything has its own laws and regulations. And admin. I have people help with my own life admin.

Anyway I make stuff to help the dog rescues and also my own mental health. Doing it as a job would ruin it for me.

No system is perfect, there will always be some that will be able to subvert it.

Most of them seem to be well known to MN contributors, and happy to admit to all and sundry that they’re playing the system !!

It's true, I have never read so many accounts of people bragging all over the Town, and in the pub, about how they have blagged the benefits system, as I do on here@Rosscameasdoody. The fact that they could be reported is obviously not a consideration for them either!

I genuinely do know someone who brags about scamming the system. Her social media is public, and all her escapades are on there. She thinks she's untouchable, and so far, she has been.

With AI coming thick and fast. Many of you will soon be unemployed. Then you can see what life is like when you can't work through no fault of your own.

Welcome 🤗

Universal living salary is in its way.

Is that what you tell your children?

My child is the one with the disabilities so no

No, I'm not blithely suggesting anything. I know it's difficult to set up a business as I have one myself. My point is that there are opportunities out there for people that have limitations and require flexibility other than simply being employed by someone else.

I think the problem here is that 'disabled' encompasses so many different conditions at so many different levels of severity that any suggestion or policy will seem ridiculous if you try and apply it universally to all disabled people. This doesn't mean that it's a bad idea or policy in itself for some people. Ultimately we need to get more disabled people working and contributing and we simply can't afford to write off great swathes of the population and fund them for the rest of their lives. It is unsustainable, unaffordable and a great waste.

For example, I have a disabled relative who definitely couldn't cope with a regular job for a variety of reasons. He could however, do shifts fruit picking for example or other jobs of this nature. He doesn't know how to apply for these jobs, probably wouldn't choose to do this and those around him would worry about the impact on his benefits but he could definitely manage this and I think it the long term it would be good for him, both mentally and physically. It is however easier not to even try and remain on benefits.

Obviously his disability isn't so physical in nature but he could never run his own business or cope with being self employed. Equally I have a friend with physical health issues who absolutely could start a business from home but could never ever do something physical like my relative. She would never start the business though because it 'wouldn't be worth it'.

Both these people could be much more productive members of society but instead they are currently completely economically inactive.

Good! Because this is a very bleak view on life
and certainly not one I ascribe too given one of my teens is training to be a physio therapist and the other a social worker so I don’t see AI taking over their jobs any time soon (nor mine… Pilates teacher!

Whilst I have some sympathy with your first point about being unable to cope with the admin of setting up a business. Most of us have to do work that adversely impacts our mental health and 'ruins' our enjoyment of something we perhaps once loved or are good at. That is literally the nature of paid work. I absolutely hate certain aspects of work associated with my business, the stress can be unbelievable but it doesn't mean I can just stop doing it. I have felt a similar way about most jobs that I have had over the years.

I do understand where you're coming from though because once you are considered disabled then the emphasis shifts from financially supporting yourself to keeping yourself well/happy. Expectations shift completely. This is tricky for the working population though who are largely stuck in jobs they hate that are making them unwell. If they complain then they are told on threads like this to simply get a better paid job and suck it up.

I know that @Fireandflames , the 28000 steps a day walker, has repeatedly said that she receives pip and other benefits not for physical issues… begs the question, why focus so much on this thread and other threads about her fibromyalgia and the extreme joint paint, debilitating tiredness, nausea etc. these are all physical ailments.

MN can be batshit crazy at times. I remember many, many moons ago starting a thread complaining about tax credits taking an age to kick in after leaving my abusive ex. I was working part-time at the time and also studying hairdressing at college full-time.

I was told I was ungrateful, greedy, lazy, etc., for expecting the taxpayer to fund me. Again, I was working and at college.

Someone suggested setting up as a mobile hairdresser instead of claiming working tax credits. When I pointed out that I a) would not be able to get insurance because I was not yet qualified and b) could not afford the kit, which is expensive, especially hairdressing scissors, I was told that if I weren't so lazy, I would find a way. I could, for example, stand outside the school gates with a pair of kitchen scissors and offer to cut kids' bangs for 50p
I'd love to say that most other posters pointed out how ludicrous this suggestion was, but most of them thought it was a marvelous idea.

Sometimes people just like to go off on a poster. It is best to just try, and ignore them, when they are like that. Nobody is living another person's life, after all, so will only be talking from their own perspective, which, of course is not always helpful. Most of us are quite aware of what we can do!

Of course most people know what they can do but many people lack the confidence or motivation to really push themselves and achieve what they could be capable of. This isn't a dig at disabled people as it's prevalant in the general population and you see it in all sectors of society. If someone will pay you the same or potentially more money for not working, why would you really push yourself to work and do something you find difficult and unpleasant?

The thing is, no one, absolutely no one, is getting more in benefits than they'd get if they were working. There might be specific instances where a family gets more in benefits than full-time NMW; however, they'd still be better off working as they'd still be entitled to top-up benefits.

I agree that people can lack the confidence to make changes, especially where finances are concerned, but forcing people into poverty with no extra support is not going to magically gain them confidence; it will do the opposite.

Wait until she has her next PIP review and finds that it’s now standard practice for DWP to randomly check social media posts to see if they’re consistent with information supplied for benefit claims.

Yes and no. Technically you are right that people should be better off working but the incentive to work is very weak for disabled people because of how the system currently works. Look at this example from the IFS:

An example demonstrates the work incentives of incapacity benefit claimants on UC. If a typical UC claimant receiving the UC health element started working 35 hours on the National Living Wage (earning £20,821 a year) and kept their status as LCWRA, they would receive £11,000 more in (after-tax-and-benefit) income than if they were not working.This means they face an effective tax rate of 47%. If, after moving into work, they were reassessed and lost their LCWRA, they would only receive £3,350 more income (after tax and benefits) than if they were not working. This is equivalent to an effective tax rate of 84% The risk of facing such a high effective tax rate is likely to dissuade claimants from moving into work

The risk of reassessment is huge and when you factor in the added costs of working e.g. commuting, parking, holiday clubs and childcare for kids etc then it becomes pretty obvious that you can indeed be worse off when working. Not to mention that most people aren't exactly going to work for fun so even if you are marginally better off, it simply isn't enough of an incentive to encourage people back to work if they can get almost the same money from not working.

The IFS report acknowledged it's not easy to get disabled people back into work but also that the benefits system is set up to provide only weak incentives for disabled people to push themselves and work. Let's be honest, if non disabled people could claim a similar level of out of work benefit then unemployment would absolutely sky rocket. It's human nature to take the path of least resistance and it's not ableist to suggest that a significant proportion of disabled people will be doing this too. People are just people. Disabled people aren't any more morally righteous then the rest of us and if we set up a system with peverse incentives then they will respond to this in a human way.

I take on board some of your points but l think part of the problem is that disabled people - especially the more significantly disabled - are afraid to try these things because if they fail it’s made very difficult for them to reclaim their benefits at former levels and they fear even more financial problems than they may face already. And in the present economic climate non-disabled people are finding running a business challenging, so the notion that it’s a viable option to get someone disabled off benefits is questionable.

The government are doing very little to get employers on board with employing the disabled and long term sick - they’ve taken the easy option of overhauling benefits and introducing conditionality and sanctions for the more severely disabled as they cost the most to support.

Given that, l think encouraging more disabled people into business start ups would be a non starter if there wasn’t significant funding made available for the same support and adjustments disabled people have when moving into work as an employee. And having first hand experience of some disastrous consequences as a result of funding delays and promised support failing to materialise, l’m very sceptical. We need a joined up system of assessment and support which is fit for purpose. At the moment we haven’t got one and putting the cart before the horse will only result in disabled people becoming poorer as a result of short sighted benefit cuts, introduced with very little regard for anything other than saving money.

The problem has always been designing a system which can properly differentiate between those who aren’t pushing themselves, those who are just taking the mick, and those who are genuinely sick or disabled to a level where they can’t work.

Over the course of my work life l’ve seen disabled people who face huge challenges and l honestly believe that in many cases they are the ones best placed to decide whether they can or should work, and should be supported if they decline. Some peoples’ lives are genuinely made so difficult from disability that compelling them to work would be grossly unfair.

My issue is with those posters who insist that all disabled people are capable of some work, when clearly the issue is not black and white. If someone’s life is already very difficult because of disability do we really have the right to insist that they take up work they are potentially capable of, when doing so is going to make their lives much harder ? In many cases, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

The issue absolutely isn't black and white and it's extremely complex. I would argue the problem extends beyond those who are recognised as disabled and into the general population where almost 50% are battling a chronic illness and 25% will experience a mental health problem in any given year. There are a hell of a lot of people operating in the grey area and most of these people will have very difficult lives. Does this mean though that we can't expect them all to work? This will lead to a very very small working population that simply won't be able to support the masses of unemployed people.

I think the key thing is that the system has to distinguish between those that genuinely can't work at all and those that would find work very difficult and would prefer not to. I think there are a great deal of people that fit into the latter category and too many to support through the current benefits system.

I increasingly think the answer is a universal income. Especially as AI erodes the number of jobs available.

Right and who would pay for this UI?