To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

[Ddakji]

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

Add Indonesian, Finnish and Hungarian. No doubt there are others.

Maybe time for everyone to stop obsessing about it, much less 'shrieking'?

As a queer person myself, displaying preferred pronouns is in no way homophobic. Why do you care so much about something that clearly doesn’t impact you? If you don’t want to display pronouns yourself, totally fine. But why are you so furious at other people doing it? Personally, I’d rather just respect what people prefer. Because I’m a kind person, not a dickhead and also it’s also none of my business. Also I like to ensure that I’m addressing people correctly. My wife commonly gets misgendered as a man (purely due to her being sporty build, cropped hair, androgynous clothing etc so would never be offended by someone asking her pronouns before just diving in with “sir” or “mr” which she would then need to correct.

Gender identity ideology is inherently sexist and homophobic. Sexist because the only way a man can identify as a woman is via sexist stereotypes, homophobic because if you deny sex you deny same sex attraction (the former CEO of Stonewall called same sex attraction (i.e. homosexuality) a prejudice akin to racism. Stonewall have also redefined what homosexuality is in their website.

The concept of “preferred pronouns” is part of gender denting ideology, therefore adding them to your work email signature (or any other use of them) signifies a support of belief in this sexist, homophobic ideology.

The concept of “preferred” pronouns is nonsense - pronouns have clear definitions in English, for example “she” being the female 3rd person pronoun. Using it correctly is no more a choice or preference than correctly calling a banana a banana.

Misgendering is another nonsense. Using male words to describe male people, however they identify, isn’t “mis” anything. If your wife is occasionally referred to using male words, 1) that’s a mistake, see 2) if she styles herself as a “butch” lesbian, well, that comes with the territory of choosing to present yourself in a more masculine manner.

All of this impacts me and everyone else when we are all called upon to partake in this nonsense, or pretend that it’s real.

Yanbu, pronouns are a result of observation by the speaker of the pronouns.

Yes. OP clearly prefers sex-based pronouns. And she prefers that her preference is exercised by everyone else too.

Whereas usually someone who states their preferred pronouns only wants their preference applied to them.

Wrong. I don’t “prefer” sex-based pronouns. Pronouns are sex based. No preference involved. That’s why it’s a nonsense.

Your intolerant attitude is part of the overall problem and you are trying to spread it as far as possible by writing this post

Whereas your post shows me that you don’t actually have any rebuttal to anything I’ve said so you’re reduced to slandering me.

Rebuttal to what you said?!?!…..it was intolerant nonsense, why would I comment any further

No, it’s not. Tell me exactly what was intolerant about it. Especially the bit about the former CEO of stonewall (Nancy Kelley) calling homosexuality a prejudice akin to racism. Because if I’m intolerant because I don’t like that, that must mean you are tolerant of what she said. Which would make you quite the homophobe, wouldn’t it.

Dear OP,

1. It is possible for Stonewall to be wrong (they are) and for you also to be wrong (you are).

2. You haven't addressed the issue of the existence of languages which do not have gendered pronouns.

3. Stop digging. You are giving GC people a bad name. They are not nearly all as militant as you are.

How am I wrong?

Why would I care about languages that aren’t English, given that it’s English I’m talking about? I do believe that’s what’s known as a strawman argument?

I’m not speaking for anyone other than myself. And 65% of the MNers who voted in agreement with me in the poll, I suppose.

But you did comment further. In such a way that showed you have nothing of value to say.

But you aren't speaking for yourself. You're literally haranguing people to agree with you.

I'm the parent of a trans DC. I have colleagues who are trans. I also have a name which does not reveal what sex I am, so I absolutely do put pronouns in my email communications. For me this is a matter of common courtesy and human decency. You have chosen to abandon those things in favour of ideology. There's a certain politician across the water who does the same thing - do you really want to emulate him? Be better.

Honestly, I think you are just looking for attention

Trump no doubt knows the sky is blue and water is wet - would you disagree in those points simply because a man you don’t like knows them to be true?

I don’t really care who you know is lying about their sex. Absolutely no one else has to go along with their lies and luckily the wheels are falling off that particular bus.

I hope your child can get some actual support that doesn’t involve forcing everyone he or she comes into contact with to be a liar.

You’re the one who keeps coming back to my thread 🤣🤣🤣

My young adult child is actually surrounded by people who respect who he is, and who have actual good manners. What do you get out of reviling trans people by calling them liars? Why does it bother you that I put my pronouns on my email signature? You aren't helping the cause any more than the TRAs are helping theirs - both extremes are as bad as each other. Meanwhile here in the middle where the decent human beings live, people like me and moderate trans people are just trying to get on with their lives.

I also wouldn't assume that Trump knows anything about anything at all.

You can choose to align with an ideology. I don’t think it’s the pp who has abandoned adding pronouns due to one.

Claiming to be something you are not is a lie, obviously. And to quote the late Magdelen Burns, I’d rather be rude than a liar. Referring to male people using female words (and vice versa) negatively impacts everyone, including the person being referred to, and particularly negatively impacts women and girls. Negatively impacting women and girls is only “good manners” if you couldn’t care less about women and girls.

I’ve already explained why I object to people putting pronouns in their work signature so I won’t waste time explaining it again - I don’t think you’re prepared to listen anyway.

You're right, I'm not prepared to listen to you. Because your poiunt of view is not the only one out there - I know a great many people who are L but not T, and none of them think and act like you. Manners matter.

Lying matters.
Cheating matters,
Language matters.
Sex matters.

I think you havevto accept that language use changes. Some people do accept that there are preferred pronouns so I think you will ultimately have to accept this. It doesn't mean you have to use them. Personally I do not choose to and think it is nonsense that people who are not trans are declaring these pronouns on badges and emails. If people do want people to call themselves something else I try to accommodate although I do often get it wrong.

Using the correct words isn’t “getting it wrong” though, and you shouldn’t be put in a position that you feel this.

This isn’t necessarily about language changing (which is a very slow process that happens with the consent of the majority, so not what’s happening with language and trans) - it’s about pretending that we get to choose the third person pronoun to use. When you call a banana a banana is there choice or preference involved? I choose to call this banana a banana? Of course not. So why with this? The third person pronoun for a female is she. No choice, no preference.

I don’t think it’s a manners matter situation. More a harmful ideology not everyone wants to validate.