To wish people understood that saying women can do what men can do isn’t doing much for equality?

[Luuccqep]

I know this is a bit of a rant. Just feel utterly despairing sometimes. My colleague has severe period pain and associated medical condition which means every month she can barely move and feels rubbish for around 24 hours.

In our industry there are large companies that allow women to have a day off a month for menstrual related reasons. Our company is not one of them and we have been campaigning for this, only to have been met by other women in particular saying that we are undermining feminism by suggesting women need a day off a month due to biological differences.

I find this sentiment utterly depressing. Women DO have periods. Some women DO need to rest when their period arrives. Saying we can do what men can do makes me sick… I don’t want to do what men can do. I want the world to treat women with respect and to respect their needs as women.

Why are so many women resistant to stand up for other women? It’s not just in relation to this point but lots of other points too. Often women are quick to feel being equal is being like a man. That’s not equality.

I don't think giving women an extra 12+ days off a year will do much for equality either tbh.

Do we really want bosses tracking our periods?

Surely this kind of thing what sick days are for?

@PaintYourAssLikeRembrandt maybe if it’s a purely medical condition. But I don’t agree sick days should come into play for painful menstruation.

Depends. Has she sought medical help and tried everything offered? Many people don't.

I also feel this is what sick days are for.

What would be more helpful would be to have absence management tools that didn't penalise people for short frequent absences if they have a decent reason.

I actually agree that equal does not mean the same, but I don't think period leave is a good idea.

The majority of women manage just fine on their periods or with medication. Why should they be entitled to a day off just because they are women and have periods? That's ridiculous. For those who suffer so much they need time off, and have tried every medication, it should fall under disability. Not because they are a woman but because of a medical condition.

So what happens when women take the piss (some will...) and then people start saying "oh she's on her "women's day" 🙄 when her social media shows her at the spa or on the piss.

Don't be ridiculous. That'd be 10 steps back in regards to being taken seriously in a male orientated environment.

As someone who really struggles with awful irregular but still monthly periods it's a reason (among many) I choose to work from home as much as possible.

I think it's about choice. Some women don't even notice their periods so won't see the point and unfortunately some men might see it as a free day off every month. It's hardly much fun. Maybe it should just be looked at as a medical need for some rather than a purely biological need although it is .

I'm not sure government care at all about equality. In light of the recent push for those with disabilities into work regardless if it's suitable.

That's what I see in reality. If you can't work like a dog all hours under the sun then move along we will find someone who can.

I agree in principle. It seems that men have been very quick to grasp the 'we are all the same' narrative when it serves their interests. Very quick to argue our biology doesn't prevent us from doing the stuff they don't care for and want us to take on. Not nearly as quick when it comes to shifting up so we get a go at the good stuff, or taking on some of the grunt work they believe we are better suited to. When other women go along with this, they haven't thought it through. I don't think 12 days extra leave a year is viable though. A sickness policy that made allowances for (medically evidenced) difficulties arising from menstruation would be a reasonable compromise.

Saying we can do what men can do makes me sick… I don’t want to do what men can do.

This is a very vague term and I suspect most people who say it mean mentally -
Mentally there's no reason why women can't do what men do.

Physically - of course. Anything that's linked to the body is going to be different and have different 'risks' for physical conditions between men and women.

And WITHIN the class 'women' there are going to be huge differences. Most women won't be incapacitated by menstrual pain - that doesn't make any difference to those that are.

What I'm saying is, being female will increase your chances of suffering from a specific condition but not guarantee it. Being male will do likewise.

I think anyone who has medical needs should have those needs respected, regardless of sex.

That's not to say that women's medical needs aren't often ignored or fobbed off - that's a different discussion though.

Completely understand many women suffer with pain etc with periods but there are billions of women that don’t and just go about their day as normal. Those that suffer should use a sick day. Imagine the increase in woman ‘needing’ a day off on their period, many will just see it as an entitlement and will use it regardless of if they need it and increase pressure on businesses and employees. Just because it is biological shouldn’t mean a we gain an extra 12+ days a month allowance. What if I need 3 days off each month for period pain and fatigue because one day isn’t enough? What about people men and woman that have debilitating chronic conditions that suffer but still go to work and when they are unable to have to use sick days?… should they also get an extra allowance?

If you take a day off twelve times a year in the UK, you’re quite likely to find yourself on the wrong end of an absence warning.

I think it could probably be arranged on medical grounds as a reasonable adjustment, but I don’t think it’s “normal” for a woman to take days off every time. If OP’s industry commonly allows this, it seems likely there must be something about the job she’s doing that means women are particularly susceptible/need this for some reason.

OP, I wouldn’t campaign with you for that as it’s not something I’ve ever come across, even though I’ve worked with many women in jobs that were physically and mentally tough. I’d absolutely be on board for ensuring those who really needed it for medical reasons should be allowed the time as a reasonable adjustment.

Women are different from men and I agree that should be taken into account, but for most normal jobs, most healthy women do not need this and giving it as a routine will have the effect of making others think twice about hiring a woman when they can have a man who works more days.

Access to gynae advice & treatment without long waits & hoops to jump through would be better.

It isn't normal for a woman to be incapacitated by her period every month & we shouldn't have to tolerate it.

My colleague has severe period pain and associated medical condition which means every month she can barely move

So is it or isn't it a medical condition, in your view? Lots of conditions flare up periodically (no pun intended) and they should be treated likewise?

Women have worked hard for years for equality in the workplace and I do believe that this would set women back. If someone is sick, they need to take a sick day as the vast majority of women don't need a day off just because they are on their period.

I manage someone who has an awful time each month so we have her covered (in case of any change of manager) with a document covering the impact of this health condition on her work (mostly with an allowance for additional working at home days). I have done the same for a colleague with a different, yet similar in impact, condition. We have a specific policy around menopause as the impacts are being more understood now (as per our policies on cancer treatment, IVF, etc). I actually think it's terrible to encourage women to ask for special privileges if there is no need - campaigning for an enhanced policy to benefit all staff who struggle with particular situations would surely be a better result.

I think you give a bad example. Not many women will need a day off a month with period pain.

This is just like any other health related problem someone might have which requires accommodations.

The biggest travesty here is that women are allowed to live with pain like this as ‘normal’.

Saying we can do what men can do makes me sick…

Well that took a turn.

I don’t think the vast majority of women need a day off every month for their period. Thats quite extreme.

I actually thought this was going to be about women physically not being able to do things men could iykwim.

How many women are affected like this, genuine question- I can think of 4 in my whole life I’ve known/ met with that literally looked like they were at deaths door with it (one who rightly in my mind had to be sent home sick). In general most people surely feel like shot but muddle on through. So it depends because as someone said above you don’t want people taking the piss

So women want period, maternity, ivf, medical appointments, menopause, school events, sick leave, leave when a pet dies when are women expected to be at work?

YANBU. I agree. It totally plays into the capitalist misogynistic patriarchy to ignore women’s basic requirements in the set up of work etc. It should work both ways with men getting extra paternal leave etc etc

And why should it be a sick day when we’re not sick? It’s good that everyone is aware of what happens and that it can be debilitating. We are essentially being punished for men NOT having periods/babies/menopause etc

And if you’re one of the women who sail through it, fab. Don’t take the time off then.

I experienced period pains briefly in my teens and haven’t since, so I wouldn’t be able to personality relate to any woman who has these issues/ a chronic condition.

That doesn’t mean I don’t empathise, in fact not having these unfortunate experiences makes me feel more empathetic. Some women are just as, if not more misogynistic than men. Challenge them all the same.

What’s leave when a pet dies got to do with it? Ingrained misogyny.

@BlondiePortz well this is exactly my point… women do need these things. Yet it’s seen as being work shy.

The patriarchy is very much alive and well

This is smart!

I think in your colleagues case it should be dealt with as a reasonable adjustment for her medical condition, eg. She has the day off and makes the time up over the rest of the month for example, so she's not going off sick or using annual leave every time.

I wouldn't need a day off every month for period pain, many women won't as it can be managed with paracetamol etc. For me, most of the time it's the same as working with a bit of a cold or headache, not enough to be off all day, I imagine I'm not the only one.