To wish people understood that saying women can do what men can do isn’t doing much for equality?

[Luuccqep]

I know this is a bit of a rant. Just feel utterly despairing sometimes. My colleague has severe period pain and associated medical condition which means every month she can barely move and feels rubbish for around 24 hours.

In our industry there are large companies that allow women to have a day off a month for menstrual related reasons. Our company is not one of them and we have been campaigning for this, only to have been met by other women in particular saying that we are undermining feminism by suggesting women need a day off a month due to biological differences.

I find this sentiment utterly depressing. Women DO have periods. Some women DO need to rest when their period arrives. Saying we can do what men can do makes me sick… I don’t want to do what men can do. I want the world to treat women with respect and to respect their needs as women.

Why are so many women resistant to stand up for other women? It’s not just in relation to this point but lots of other points too. Often women are quick to feel being equal is being like a man. That’s not equality.

I have no doubt that if men had periods, they’d not come in to work while bleeding.

The whole she’s on her period/menopausal has to be taken back into power. Yes we are, and for some, that’s going to be quite debilitating, for other not. It’s a variation within our sex that’s normal and should be catered for automatically without any shame.

What I don’t understand is women who haven’t been debilitated by these things denying other women the space and grace to have it dealt with empathetically. It’s not going to “set feminism” back FGS. The capitalist paradigm will still wring as much as it can from us

Exactly so.

Equating women with men is not equality.

Totally agree with this. We don't treat men like a homogenous mass in the workplace in this way.
Employers absolutely should be considerate of women with bad periods and struggles due to menopause on an individual basis.

But I don't want assumptions made about me based on my womb in the workplace. I want to be treated as an individual, who might have other reasons for brain fog, or other causes of pain. Maybe I am actually in a mood because I am not being listened to, not because I am a 'woman of a certain age'.

Women have to put up with so much assumption from medical practitioners, employers, even family. I want to be listened to, not be dismissed because of assumptions based on a body part I have.

This feels like a totally backwards way of looking at things. By NOT having it recognised that we have wombs and hormones that can cause problems (the men also have the latter by the way) - we ARE being treated as a homogenous mass. Lots of us suffer terribly and have to squeeze that in around a patriarchal work set up. I want to be listened to based on my bodily functions specific to me and my sex. The option should be there. Until the medical profession actually starts to unfurl its misogyny to actually help women deal with painful periods, flooding bleeding etc? Why deny we are made differently to men? Fitting ourselves into the patriarchy has got us into this position in the first place

What? Why not? If some women experience debilitating period pains then of course they should be able to take sick days for them. What if some women need more than 1 day off per month? Your ‘1 day a month’ policy would be useless.

Stop creating a problem where there isn’t one. Sick days are there for when we’re feeling unwell for whatever reason. Why single out period pain?

😂😂😂😂😂
Good effort at a spoof thread.

It can be hard enough getting a job as a women in certain spheres where they want another bro to join the boys club without them looking at you thinking you are going to need extra days off, which most women have never asked for.

I have no issue with certain women advocating for their medical needs, but please don’t pretend that you are doing it for me. It is something you individually need, don’t say it is of any benefit to me.

This is absurd. How is debilitating period pain “not sick”? You wouldn’t say that about severe stomach pain, or a splitting migraine, would you?

Threads like this make me eternally grateful for the women I work with. This ‘idea’ would be laughed out of the room by every one of us.

What about if you start suffering later? Need time off to do IVF while your colleague “bros” would just need a few mins to spunk into a tube? What about if you had a daughter who suffered debilitating periods each month? Why wouldn’t you be on the side of women in general so getting into these industries as a woman isn’t even a thing? We all know we work bloody hard

I can see both sides of this.

Plus not all woman suffer. But those who do should be covered by equality act.

The one thing I do always think men need to remember is that they wouldn’t exist if we didn’t go through periods, pregnancy and childbirth!!! So where there is necessary adjustments needed they should suck it up!

If it’s regularly interfering with ability to work then it’s a medical condition or even a disability and should be dealt with accordingly - it shouldn’t have a special category because that means it’s not dealt with properly by either the sufferer, the employer, colleagues or the medical establishment

I say that as a disabled perimenopausal woman who understands issues both menstrual & related to my condition that regularly interfere with & impact on my daily life

I understand that many women have days of pain, but many more do not. I would hate for women to be 'downgraded' because thy are considered fit to work on only 18 days a month or similar.

Provision needs to be related to the individual, rather than women as a whole. Everyone, male and female get sick sometimes.

People are entitled to time off if they are unwell though, aren't they? So in the case of your friend, she is not well enough to work, so she can call in sick. I am not sure we need a special provision specifically for people who have terrible period pains (which obviously must be very debilitating for them); we just need to acknowledge that a small proportion of women will be too ill to work every month.

I do not wish at all to deny anything to anyone.
Let's push for INDIVIDUAL assessment and allowances for the INDIVIDUAL.
So the rest does not get labelled with one thing or another, just using it to diminish the proven value of women in their workplace.

This

I had heavy period early teens to late 20s - I don't need to image that.

I would as would many others men included like employers who are/can be flexiable round health conditions if needed. Whether that fitting round cancer treatments or anything else like unusal period pain. That is not a female only issue - especially as work force ages.

I don't need this to be attached to "women" - I don't need more barriers to getting well paid work and carrers.

Plus ignore the big problem and what I and most women in pain would have actually wanted - no pain or some answers - which means medcial profession have to take it seriously.

Workplace giving period days is the wrong solution - better women health care is what needed but that never seems to get priotised.

This is imo a silly idea that borders on discriminatory.

Let's give every woman 12 days off because a small minority have such painful periods that they cannot function at work even on painkillers.
How does that make sense?

My daughter has Crohn's disease. At times she is very unwell with it. She may need to take time off. So shall we give everyone 10 days a year because some people have inflammatory bowel disease? After all, everybody digests food and poops, but for some people it's agonising. Or does my daughter have to use sick leave to manage her medical condition, ideally with some arrangements with her employer that she may need some additional adjustments with regards to analysis of her patterns of sick leave, for example adjustments to her Bradford factor scoring? Opportunities to work from home or work part days when she can?

To me obviously she needs to use sick leave. So why should her medical condition (Crohn's) require her to use sick leave, whilst another woman's medical condition (endometriosis, fibroids etc) should not? Surely it would be more sensible that a woman with endo or suspected endo, like my daughter with her Crohn's, is understood to have a medical condition which may require some adjustments to Bradford factor scoring where that's used, opportunities to work from home where possible, etc. Any other approach discriminates against other chronic illnesses and conditions.

I personally sailed through my periods. Barely even took a paracetamol. Certainly didn't need a day off every month, but might have resented colleagues who took their allocated day - unless it was blatantly clear they really suffer with their periods, in which case, they are unwell...so can use sick leave.

100% what we need is better medical care for women's health. Investigation of issues, instead of here is the pill and off you go.
That is what we should be advocating for. Proper research, proper data, proper care and proper diagnosis. You can then get reasonable adjustments.

Genuine question, but why wouldn’t period pain that is debilitating to the point of needing time off be classed as a medical issue? There might not be a diagnosis (because women’s health is so widely misunderstood and downplayed), but surely that is a medical issue?
I do think more needs to be done in the workplace to make it equitable rather than equal. But not sure this one day a month idea is appropriate. Most women wouldn’t need it and it would just give men something to moan about (and fairly so in most cases).
It would be better if everyone felt comfortable to discuss any health issues with their employer and reasonable adjustments made, alongside increased awareness of women’s health issues. Like the opportunity to accrue TOIL so they could take a day when needed without losing holiday or sick days. The option to wfh when needed. Not relying on the Bradford Factor to measure sickness when some people might need single sick days here and there.
With the current drive to get sick people back to work, businesses are going to need to be more flexible in how they manage sickness.

I think it would be not useful to focus on the fact that periods shouldn't be debilitating. If they're that painful, something is wrong. Better medical care and access to a gyne (one that actually listens) would be more useful than a day off.

But I agree that women acting like it being treated like men is not equality.

I didn't say we shouldn't recognise that we have wombs and hormones. I am saying it shouldn't be assumed that those wombs and hormones cause all women to act the same way/feel the same. We all have a head, doesn't mean we all get migraines, does it?

I don't want it to be assumed I WILL need time off for period pain just because another woman does. I'm not her, she is not me. I want women to be able to safely talk about debilitating periods and be treated accordingly as an individual with a specific health concern, just as I would for a migraine.

Yes, we all want to be treated in a medical setting in accordance with our bodies. But if I'm going to the doctor's for a migraine, I don't want to be told it must be menopause because some women of my age experience migraines with menopause and dismissed with no further investigation because how can it be anything else but menopause, because I am a woman, and then 3 years down the line, after a lot of pushing, finally get the scan they would have given a man after 6 months, and discover it's a brain tumour.

There's a fine balance between recognising problems specific to women and refusing to acknowledge that not every medical problem women have is about their wombs.

If period pain is bad enough to impact work and there is no diagnosis, then it's a sick day, same if the person was suffering from any other pain/illness.

If diagnosed, then it's a medical condition which will be documented by medical professionals.

I have Endometriosis amd some days the pain is horrendous. I work from home on those days, hot water bottle glued to me snd extra pain killers. If it's really bad, I take a day off (paid) and with a sick cert if more than one.

There's absolutely zero need to give everyone days of for the sake of a minority. The majority can & should make it themselves.

When people think of equality, they often forget equity and its always generally viewed through the lens of a patriarchal society designed by men, for men. How different would our world be if women designed how we operate?

I still think this problem would be solved by a general agreement that if someone says they cannot work because of x, y, z and they are expecting to need an extra comfortable seat / longer breaks / shorter working day that the employer and employee work together to find a solution to keep people at work where possible.

I genuinely can’t see anything different in someone telling me ‘I cannot work because I have hideous cramps’ than ‘I cannot work because chemo is really difficult’ or ‘I cannot work because my depression is poorly controlled and they’re adjusting my meds’ or literally anything else I’ve heard in my 10 years managing staff. There are various things more or less likely for all sorts of groups of people so approaching people as individuals and working out how to support them as people is the best way for me.