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Original poster

Older kids rear-facing - link to gallery

139 replies

MissHH · 17/05/2008 18:16

I see some people think that RF is only for little kids and believes that it is not enough room for RF seats past the babystage. That is not true.

Lots of pictures hereforum.nybaktmamma.com/showthread.php?t=524428 are some pictures of kids all the way up till over 6 YRS rear-facing.

Heresikringavbarnibil.blogspot.com/2007/10/biler-med-plass-til-tre-barneseter.html is some pictures of three carseats in normal familiy cars(smallest one is a VW Polo).

OP posts:
Dynamicnanny · 17/05/2008 18:33

Are we still discussing this - I still don't think they look safe - also you won't be able to see the children and what they are upto you if we're all sat back to back - although I agree carjourneys are boring I enjoy chatting with and seeing the children when I'm in the front and their in the back.

suzi2 · 17/05/2008 19:59

Ah yes, dynamicnanny, whether or not a car seat looks safe is obviously a very important thing when choosing one. And being able to see what your children are doing is much more important than their safety. What bizarre logic!

Meeely2 · 17/05/2008 20:05

those seats are even more enormous than i first thought - not a chance they would fit in my car dudes sorry. Will however consider them for baby 3 when we have robbed a bank gathered the money for a new bus...

ChirpyGirl · 17/05/2008 20:12

But we can;t buy them here easily, they are expensive and they don't fit in all cars cos belts have to be longer (is my understanding)
So now I have massive guilt about DD's being in front facing when there is nothing I can do.

Meeely2 · 17/05/2008 20:15

me too chirpy - i think we can be reassured that we are doing the best we can given what we have. I have isofix britax and as i understand (as unsafe as they may be) they are a very good make.

Iota · 17/05/2008 20:16

A serious question - isn't car sickness more of a problem if the child is travelling backwards?

hippipotami · 17/05/2008 20:19

Okay, I get in in like a grande voyager where you can turn the actual seat (not carseat but seat that comes with the car iyswim) around.

But in a VW polo, where do the legs of a six year old go in a rearfacing seat?

Quadrophenia · 17/05/2008 20:21

hippo the picture on the second link is of a vw polo

Quadrophenia · 17/05/2008 20:23

I am also glad that my children are too big, however i think its great that people are raising awareness of this, the point being that they should be more readily available in the uk

FairyMum · 17/05/2008 20:25

Great Link. My children are rearfacing until they are about 5ish. I don't see the problem with it at all and I don't think British children or British cars are that much different from Scandinavians. Chilling quote from the doctor about the children he sees unecessarily injured.Hippipotami, my last car was a Golf. Not a massive car at all. We had rearfacing seats no problem.

tegan · 17/05/2008 20:43

We have a vectra and dh has to have the driver seat right back so he can get in as such dd1 (10) has to sit behind as there is no leg room and we can't even put a carry seat back facing behind dh as there is no room.

Meeely2 · 17/05/2008 20:45

tegan, at last, someone else in my situation, however my car is smaller still than yours....

Meeely2 · 17/05/2008 20:47

and perhaps my dh is bigger than yours too!!

TheDuchessOfNorksBride · 17/05/2008 20:57

Interesting, I've never seen these for older children. So is this popular on the continent?

But! I'm also interested in the leg room question- nearly all the pictures show babies/toddlers. On the first link, there is a tallish boy in first picture but the leg room is a bit squashed.

There is another boy towards the end who is quite tall (with plaster on his forehead) but the picture doesn't show his legs at all (also, he is too tall for that seat as his head is above the head rest and would get no support in a crash and may even clunk heads with the person behind him, but that's just incidental).

Explain the legs someone please!

diplodocus · 17/05/2008 21:02

I've got a rear facer in a Peogeot 206,which is obviously a very small car but with a tall driver you'd need to put it behind the passenger seat. Works fine - no car sickness and I manage to chat away quite happily to mine. Also have a mirror on rear seat headrest so I can see what she's up to!

Cadmum · 17/05/2008 21:07

I missed the earlier discussion but live on the continent where I would be happy to see children in carseats full STOP.

Does anyone think that the last picture on the second link showing the child rear facing in the front seat can possibly be safe? Every car and carseat manufacturer would argue otherwise as would common sense.

There is no leg room and they will break their legs in an accident.

As for the rear facing car seat in a people-mover, this is also not legal or in accordance with the vehicle or carseat manufacturers recommendations.

(Sorry if this has already been pointed out...)

hippipotami · 17/05/2008 21:09

Quattro, I saw that, but I must be missing something. When the seat is rearfacing, where do the children put their legs? Up the backrest they are facing?
Sorry, genuinly confused
Because even in the baby seat, my dc's feet touched the backrest. So once they were bigger, their legs would have to be bent to fit?

hippipotami · 17/05/2008 21:12

Now, I have just seen the boy with the plaster on his forehead. He is way too tall for that seat, the harness straps come from down by his shoulderblades
If that is the alternative to forward facing in proper fitting seats then I go forward facing any day.

Original poster
MissHH · 17/05/2008 21:23

Some statistics(first graph showing Sweden vs GB): members.essentialbaby.com.au/index.php?showtopic=532878&hl=statistics

To everyone who is concerned about leg rom:
A collection of expert statments: kidsincars.blogspot.com/2007/09/bent-or-crossed-legs-are-not-dangerous.html
www.rearfacing.co.uk/faqs.php#legs

Dynamicnanny: Looks aren't everything, it is how a seat performs in an actual crash that is important. It i possible to buy mirrors so that you can see your RF child(and the child can see you) in your rear view(is it called that?) mirror.

Meeley2:They are not so enormous as they might seem. I drive a Golf and I have a Akta Graco Duologic RF in the back and sometimes I have an Britax Two Way Elite back there as well. A Golf is NOT a huge car.

I have a friend recently turning their 2 YR old from FF to RF again. They drive a Opel Vectra. Their FF seat took up so much space that their two oldest couldn't have high back boosters. Now when the youngest is in a RF in the middle they have room for one high back booster on each side.

OP posts:
oliviaelanasmum · 17/05/2008 21:27

My dd1 can only travel rear facing for about 5 minutes before being violently sick, so this would never work for me.

Meeely2 · 17/05/2008 21:34

a golf is bigger than a peugeot 206, believe me and you probably don't have your drivers seat right back on its runners. With my two forward facing britax's (you raving about the britax rear facing, I am assuming they wouldn't make an UNsafe forward facing one) in the back there is no room in the middle for a rear facing or forward facing seat, hence with baby 3 planned we are looking at buying a new car.

How can the the seat not be as big as they look? the rear facing part of it means that the head part of the seat sticks quite a way into the footwell space of the rear seats - i don't have rear footwell space at all. I would struggle to get a slip of paper between rear seats and drivers seat.

My argument is falling on deaf ears I realise that - and I also realise for my kids to be at the safest they could be on car journeys I would buy a people carrier and rear facing seats from Sweden or wherever at the small cost of what? couple of grand perhaps? No can do, so they are not as safe as they could be, but as safe as I can afford them to be - I hope my conscience can cope with that if we are ever in a high speed crash, god forbid - but thanks for the guilt trip none-the-less.

Quadrophenia · 17/05/2008 21:51

oh fgs meely don't be so melodramatic
so its wrong to share information about a possible safer way of transporting children because it makes you feel guilty.
It seems to be the people providing this information are doing so to raise awareness which could benefit everyone by such seats becoming more commonplace and therefore cheaper to buy in this country...it has nothing to do with making you feel guilty

Original poster
MissHH · 17/05/2008 21:55

Chirpygirl: I know you can't but this might make the demand for RF seats more visible over here so someday it might be possible to get one without "robbing the bank".

To get some changes the word has to be spread even though some people might find the facts scaring.

In USA, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Denmark the experts recommend RF for as long as possible. People from France, Poland, Holland and Germany is reading up on the subject and wanting RF car seats.

I think the power really is in the consumers hands, but that might be difficult to see and it is way to little information on this specific area.

Iota: No, the Norwegian experts(doctors) says that very few children gets carsick because they are RF.

hippipotami: It is not an alternative placing a child car seat on those kinds of seat and turn the cars seat RF if thats what you meant? The seats isn't tested for that kind of use. And there where no six year old in the Polo, that might have been a problem yes ;) I have a soon to be three year old RF in my Golf. It is not much leg room but he doesn't complain because it does not hurt him(and believe me my son is not afraid to speak his mind ).

TheDutchessOfNorksBride: The kid you mention with the plaster is to big and the text says so too but in Norwegian so no wonder you didn't understand that It was the big brother trying out the seat.

Cadmum: In Sweden many experts recommends the front seat, mind you ONLY and only when the airbag is deactivated! Can you(or someone else) please explain to me what a people-mover is? I have never seen that word before. Keep in mind that this is in Scandinavia and that some of the laws might differ to those in your country.

Scandinavian facts about placing of the car seat: kidsincars.blogspot.com/2008/03/where-to-place-car-seat.html

The children often sits in Indian position or just with bent legs. In an accident broken legs is way easier to fix than the alternative unfortunately.

You can see many kids in that position in this American ERF gallery(the cars over there are a bit different than the European ones so most children in Europe have way more space for their legs than in the US): www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum.aspx

OP posts:
hippipotami · 17/05/2008 21:59

Ah okay HH, I was looking at this with my (tall) five and a half year old in mind, and could not see how she would fit.

I think it is a good idea in theory, but would need to see it in practice to fully understand.

However, my dc are nearly 9 and 5.5 so perhaps I am past this stage anyhow.

Original poster
MissHH · 17/05/2008 22:03

Meely2: I did not mean to say anything about the space in a Peugot 206. I know it is tiny. The Golf was just an example for everyone not just you. I'm sorry if you felt that I was attacking you because that was not my intention.

The most most important thing is to secure our children in the car the best way we can(that also includes FF ), I think we all can agree on that one?

To day a saw a mum in the backseat of the car with a little baby standing in here lap(while the car was moving yes!!) That is far far more worse to me than a child FF.

Here, in Norway, I see FF as a next best alternative when one for different reasons cannot have an RF seat. I think the the most important thing is the knowledge and taking a choice after one has that knowledge.

If anyone understands me? I'm not out to make any judgment on parents keeping there children FF here in the UK it is the information that is important. As many mums here says the never heard about this, that is actually a step in the right direction.

OP posts: