Older kids rear-facing - link to gallery

[MissHH]

I see some people think that RF is only for little kids and believes that it is not enough room for RF seats past the babystage. That is not true.

Lots of pictures hereforum.nybaktmamma.com/showthread.php?t=524428 are some pictures of kids all the way up till over 6 YRS rear-facing.

Heresikringavbarnibil.blogspot.com/2007/10/biler-med-plass-til-tre-barneseter.html is some pictures of three carseats in normal familiy cars(smallest one is a VW Polo).

I know what you mean about statistics. They are hard to compare between countries. As you say, there might be other factors involved. But let me put it this way. The statistics for children killed in accidents USED to be about 12 children per year. That was before children started to be kept rear facing in the car. Now it is down to around 2 a year. That is a good improvement. If you want to see anther illustration on why they are safer, look a the table showing neck forces in this file. If gets dangerous for the child when the force reaches 1000 Newton. This table is actually what converted me

I have just recieved an American research report published by Journal of Injury Prevention in January.

It is called the Car Safety seats for children: Rear facing for best protection.

Objective: To compare the injury risk between rear-facing (RFCS) and forward-facing (FFCS) car seats for children less than 2 years of age in the USA.

They have only researched over there up till two years, but still thats something. The Swedish(but children should RF longer than up till 2 YRS according to their research) have known this for a long time, but if some people won't believe them than maybe they believe the Americans?

Anyhow the conclusion is clear: RFCSs are more effective than FFCSs.

Can't wait to read the whole report .

I have in my possesion a report from a German scientist that shows that even the worse rear facing seats is miles better than the best forward facing seat when it comes to the forces applied to the neck of the child. It is not public yet but I will link to it as soon as I am allowed to do so.

MrsAkin:

Do you want to make a swap?

I do not think that you can get it without buying it. It coast 12 USD on this web page: pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/121/3/619

Sorry,Aki not Akin.

I would gladly swop. I will email you

how is that safer than car seats that are actually anchored on the car instead of just being held in by a seat belt?

Here in Aus - I have an almost 6yo who is still in a 5 point harness booster seat that is anchored by a huge bolt on the rear dash.

No matter how much room there appears to be - my dd1 would be too tall for this at almost 6 - rear facing that is - she has the longest legs. She would have no room anywhere for her legs.

eidsvold, RF seats are safer (whether seat belt tethered or fixed to the frame)because they eliminate most of the forces that act on a childs head or neck during a crash.

6 years old is held to be the outside at which a child can travel rearfacing, this thread was started as an aside to a campaign for more awareness for rearfacing in the 9-18Kg category, so up to 4 years. It is possible for chldren to travel rear facing for longer, but it is very much down to individual circumstances - seat type, child size, etc.

The focus is meant to be on the subject of RF, not RF six year olds ;)

MissHH- I don't want to open this up for debate again, but I tried to send you a personal message but couldn't. I noticed from one of your posts that you have a Graco Duologic Isofix rear facing seat. I'm considering this seat for our 2 cars (VW Polo and BMW 1 series). I would be VERY grateful to hear of your experience with this seat and also your opinion of the amount of space it takes. Also, do you find that 3 recline positions are adequate to avoid your child's neck tipping forward when asleep?

Thanks for your help!

This website is good for Rear Facing car seats and it give as list of the types of cars they will fit in.
www.carseat.se/store.html

Great, thanks sleepyeyes!

Great, thanks sleepyeyes!

Your welcome Satsuma I've been looking for a decent rear facing site for ages and found it by accident the other day.

Thanks for this thread, everyone - we are about to get a new car seat for DS, and will now go for RF, having previously not realised that this was an option.

Can anyone answer a question, please? We don't have a car, therefore only use car seat occasionally in hire cars and borrowed cars. Are the RF ones, e.g. Brittax, easy to fit and remove, or are they more intended to be left in the car?

Thanks

They will be easy to swap around the problem you will have with any car seat, FF or RF is that not every seat fits every car.
And you must learn to install it properly over 50% of car seats are incorrectly installed, maybe more can't quite remember but it's a shocking amount.

Yes, fitting is a problem especially with rear facing seats as you can't get them fitted as easily (due to availability).

I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that Isofix solves this problem? The thing you have to watch with rear facing seats is the space they need between the back and front seats. The Graco Duologic Isofix seat is supposed to be one of the smallest (according to the Swedish supplier), so I'm hoping it will be suitable for both cars.

We have a Recaro Polaric which I bought from the babyworld website. We have a Megane - regular size not the Scenic - and it has to go behind the passenger seat as the drivers seat has to be too far back (this one is quite large - I was really worried when I saw the size of the box that it wouldn't fit in at all)- it is attached to the isofix points and is also anchored to the front seat on both sides so there is no movement there at all and I wouldn't be at all worried about dd's legs being injured by the seat moving.

The only drawback that occurs for us is that we fly up and down to see my family and this car seat is not at all portable for putting into taxis or other peoples cars, plus I think when she is 2 she will need to sit in a car seat on the plane (?) and it would not be suitable for this either. This didn't occur to us at all when we bought the Recaro so we have had to get a maxi cosi ff seat for these trips (bought for £40 from a friend - sadly we are not rich!) I don't know if other styles are easier to move from car to car?

Dd is quite happy in either car seat though I would say the Recaro is a lot more padded and she looks a lot more comfy in it if she falls asleep.

We've got brio zento's RF and they are brilliant. The in car safety centre in essex has lots of RF seats you can try in your car and details of where you can buy them from (they are an information service and don't sell them themselves) more information on the UK RF website.

DS has only ever been RF and doesn't know any differnt, we have a mirror like we did when he was a baby, he can see us and we can see him, he doesn't get car sick and he is very comfortable. If he ever started throwing up or seemed uncomfortable we would have to consider FF but he hasn't so we haven't. I think you have to go for the safest option you can for you and your child (which might not be RF for everyone but is for us) and I hope the UK retailers start making this choice more available so we can make up our own minds like the adults we are.

I still don't understand where my 4ft tall 6 yr old would put his legs in a RF seat?

Satsuma, we have the Akta Graco Duologic. We chose this seat because of its safety record and also becuase it seemed to be the only RF seat out there that fixes with both isofix and seatbelts. I have Isofix in my Audi A3, but DPs Nissan truck doesn't and we use that most weekends. The seat is very sturdy and the head & side protection is excellent. We didn't use it from newborn, but it is designed for this, and the bucket bit of the seat lifts out like other 0+ seats, and can even be fitted to certain Graco buggies. One neat feature of the infant seat is that it has little wheels and a telescopic handle so you can trundle it about rather than carry seat + baby, maybe handy in an airport?

My DD is 2.3 and she is very comfortable in it. We tend to use the 2nd position mostly and that gives her plenty of recline without tipping her head forwards (she sleeps in the car a lot). We will use the 3rd (most upright) position when she gets older and maybe needs more legroom (because it will allow legs between the child seat and the rear car seat. One thing we have also done is used the seat inserts (can't think of a better term for them) that are supplied for use with small babies. They have removable foam inserts, so we took them out and they are just like a fleece pad which we use just to make the head area a bit more comfortable. We will probably take these out soon though as they may be too warm in the hot weather.

We have had one problem with the seat - one of bits of the isofix fittings broke (made of plastic). I contacted our supplier in Sweden and he sent some new bits immediately that just clicked into place, apparently Akta Graco have redesigned them to be tougher.

We also use a mirror to keep an eye on DD. She has never known any different though, so is pretty happy RF. It also has the advantage that if an adult is sat in the back with her they can converse very easily without craning round.

LewisFan, as has been pointed out on this thread a few times, 6yo is probably pushing the boundaries for RF, up to 4yo is desirable from a childs physical development, anything more is just a bonus. A tall 6yo is most likely sufficiently developed to have good neck strength to withstand an impact.

Anyhow to answer your question, they either sit cross-legged, or some of the seats (as ours does) actually have space between the child seat and the back of the car seat (probably only the isofix ones).

I can only speak for the Recaro Polaric but there is a big enough gap for their legs between it and the seat of the car, my cousins ds (3 but wears age 4 clothes as he is v tall) has been in it and was perfectly comfortable.

This does mean however that you need to put the front seat foraward if you have a smaller car so I know we wouldn't fit two in our Megane and still be able to drive - dp and I are both 5'7'' so not really tall.

We have the Brio Zento which we use when DD is ever in a car/vehicle (we don't have a car ourselves anymore). DD has plenty of leg room with it in all of the cars and vans it has been in.

Anyway I would much rather broken legs than a broken neck.