Teacher showing photos to kids of victorian dead children - slightly disturbing

[whyiwonderwhy]

I am finding this so disturbing I can't sleep! However I might be being oversensitive, who knows. It is the "but - WHY?" bit which is bothering me most.

The lesson was about the industrial revolution, and the subject of photography came up, 2 of the earliest photos were shown to the class (13-14yo) and then....I wish I could say the teacher showed photos of some of the extraordinary engineering inventions of the day, or of busy streets, or China, or something wonderful and extraordinary...but no, the teacher showed 10 photos of dead children and talked about how the Victorians would photograph dead children as though they were still alive, with the rest of the family, in a commemorative way. I have seen some in the past (I didn't learn about it at school however) and they are moving and tragic and disturbing. Nothing else, just these photos.

Just wondering...why? why would the teacher do this? Any ideas?

This teacher has form by the way. A lot of it. But this has for some reason blindsided me.

We did and a brain in a glass case.

I’m chiming in here without reading the thread. Definitely complain to the teacher. It’s happening all over schools now where they will will push traumatic things onto kids. I noticed about 4 or 5 instances of inappropriate subject matter or inappropriate teacher sharing of their personal life before speaking up eventually, when a reading book for 14/15 year olds had a disturbing sexual assault in it - which confusingly was the one segment the teacher chose to read out in class despite her agreeing with me later that it was inappropriate.
This was across a variety of different teachers and 2 different schools so it’s definitely happening everywhere. Schools now are WEIRD. If it’s not them showing kids awful photos it’s them pushing the trans agenda or pretending they can’t do anything about your child being bullied into mental health issues

At that age, our teachers chose content full of violence and sex whenever they could, because we were interested, so paid attention! Teens tend to be fascinated by life and death, sex and gore, and the whys of everything, throughout the ages.

You sound overly protective. Your 13-14 year old DC only has a handful of years left at home - are you getting them ready to be independent and off into the world at 18?

Victorian death pictures are part of history and I find them fascinating rather than traumatic. My son when he was in year 8 last year was taught about FGM, he fainted in class as he doesn't do well with things that are graphic. He can play computer games that involve killing people because it's not real but the FGM is. He still won't talk about it.

I'm 42. Our history textbooks included photos of KKK lynchings, and dead bodies piled up in concentration camps.

So the Victorian photos I would say are lower down on the disturbing scale. Plus tying it in with the industrial revolution: photos being new and expensive technology meant that the average Victorian family didn't have loads of pics like we do - this was often the only family photo they purchased. Presumably having a photo of their loved one helped them with the grieving process as they didn't have the distressing experience of forgetting their face.

I also think that we are perhaps too far removed from death in our society today (England/British) and that other cultures that see death as part of life may be healthier (e.g. wakes), so perhaps the Victorians weren't wrong.

Year 9 kids have seen a lot worse. I’m a teacher myself though and probably wouldn’t choose to do this unless it had real relevance to the lesson!

It may well be the Industrial Revolution that was the primary subject but there’s cross over with various interesting other nuggets of Victorian social history and it’s up to the teacher how they want to bring their lessons alive. 13-14 is the perfect age to get ‘blindsided’ by fascinating side subjects like this. I know I loved it when teachers went a little rogue during lessons. They’re professionals in a difficult job, just relax and trust they know what holds kids attentions.

Both of my children came home mortified by Jesus being on the cross at 4. Maybe it’s how it’s taught but at secondary school they also dissect pigs hearts so I think they can handle it.

The victorians were fascinating but most Victorian post mortem photography is either fake or not actually post mortem at all.

The ones where the people are stood up and posed for example are not dead. They only took photos of people lying down

I’m chiming in here without reading the thread
Yeah it shows 🙄

A huge amount of the industrial revolution was about health and death. Children who would have had jobs like collecting eggs and washing apples were suddenly sent down mines and put in factories.

Jon snow's intervention in to stop a cholera outbreak was the beginning of epidemiology.

The London Necropolis Railway is interesting.

Many people have explained to you that there is nothing wrong with this in a history lesson at this age. You continue to say well there must be more relevant things to show. You are not in charge of these lessons. You don't like the teacher and this is leading you to get over involved looking for things to be annoyed about.

I assume as well as the inventions etc the teacher also wanted to show a window into the social history and how people actually lived day to day. High child mortality was a large part of life then.

IMO the social history bit is much more interesting than learning about inventions because it brings history alive.

I can see the relevance in talking about attitudes to children, mortality rates etc at the time but no need to show the photos.

Anyone else just gone down a rabbit hole of Victorian death photography? Fascinating

I didn't realise it was particularly unusual until I was much much older. But actually it was just a regular state school.

@Mothership4two you comment that it might be the first image of a dead body they have ever seen, do you not think they might have seen a picture of the dead pope that has been beamed to the world all week

Many schools teach the holocaust in Yr 9. I can assure you the pictures children see from this topic are far worse than any Victorian death photographs. Should Year 9 children be protected from these as well?

The holocaust is taught in Year 9 to ensure that even those children who don’t study History for a GCSE learn about this important topic.

History is not pretty and Year 9 pupils should be allowed to see this.

OP, if you have such strong feelings about this history lesson maybe you could do better? There’s a shortage of teachers (it’s actually the retention of experienced teachers - I wonder why) so why not retrain?

Are you actually unable to sleep because of this OP? The teacher is right, it was completely normal to the Victorians to have photos of their dead relatives, it is history OP.

Definitely complain to the teacher. It’s happening all over schools now where they will will push traumatic things onto kids

How on earth is this traumatic though? It’s a fascinating period in history and I see how it fits with the theme. Rapid industrial progress, shift from country to city, use of child labour as labour shortages for creased industry, higher mortality rates when you cram people together in cities, and this led to a rapid shift in funerary rites. Plus Yr9 students are absolute arseholes in the main and this will get their attention at the outset to get involved in the rest of the content😁.

How these pictures are disturbing I don’t know. They are just dead people being posed as photography was in its infancy and expensive so it was the only ‘pictorial’ memory a family would ever have, so posing them life-like seemed more sensible to them.

I think any discomfort stems from the weird distance people put between themselves and death these days. In that time it was a normal and expected part of life. We had an old family Bible (called that, but was actually a diary), and it detailed diphtheria outbreaks and so forth. Stuffing sulfur coated rags down kids throats in a desperate attempt to save kids (often rupturing the gullet and causing a painful death accordingly instead). I’m in a hot country so getting people in the ground pronto was of utmost importance. The Bible detailed the parents going off to bury a child, to come home to find another one or two dead. Meanwhile well-meaning neighbours had been knocking up child coffins in advance, left, right and centre. They sat with death as ‘normal’. They didn’t teach 14yo kids to be horrified/unsettled etc by it. That’s a relatively new thing and no one is doing kids any favours by complaining about Victorian death photos🤦‍♀️.

I was teaching mine about mummification and different things from reception age, so they thought it all fascinating and normal. They didn’t burst into tears and have child breakdowns. We used to take them to a museum that had a good collection of Victorian death photos and they were always fascinated, no harm done! It’s in no way traumatic unless YOU have pushed that to not your child.

I imagine teachers in 2125 will be teaching fascinated and incredulous children about gender reveal parties

Most of these photos have been debunked. You can't pose a dead body easily because it's a dead weight. Most of the claimed 'death' photos are based on modern misinterpretation of the conditions of photography at the time- the long exposure meant that postural stands were needed to help the subjects keep still. This is documented in contemporary treatises on photography. You can't use a postural stand to prop up a body, it's not strong enough.
Likewise painted eyes - sitters eyes were often captured as closed due to blinkjng and exposure length. So they painted open eyes on top.

OP, i would have a problem with this as she's presenting something that's largely an internet urban myth as fact. There is no evidence that Victorians posed dead bodies as if living - it isn't possible.
There are credible photos of bodies on biers, in coffins, on death beds. These are usually obviously what they are.

Are you a teacher at the school? Of History?

You can't pose a dead body easily because it's a dead weight

Yes, and no. If you were not in a stinking hot country like I am, where we now have refrigeration for bodies but did not back then, you could certainly wait for rigor to pass, which is quite quick, and then it’s easy to dress, pose etc. They are certainly dead weights, but if you look at many photos, they are leaning and ‘posed’ in a supportive way as you could easily do. I’ve seen many bodies and could easily pose them for photos as the Victorians did.

I wouldn't have a problem at all. But then I like weird shit.