Teacher showing photos to kids of victorian dead children - slightly disturbing

[whyiwonderwhy]

I am finding this so disturbing I can't sleep! However I might be being oversensitive, who knows. It is the "but - WHY?" bit which is bothering me most.

The lesson was about the industrial revolution, and the subject of photography came up, 2 of the earliest photos were shown to the class (13-14yo) and then....I wish I could say the teacher showed photos of some of the extraordinary engineering inventions of the day, or of busy streets, or China, or something wonderful and extraordinary...but no, the teacher showed 10 photos of dead children and talked about how the Victorians would photograph dead children as though they were still alive, with the rest of the family, in a commemorative way. I have seen some in the past (I didn't learn about it at school however) and they are moving and tragic and disturbing. Nothing else, just these photos.

Just wondering...why? why would the teacher do this? Any ideas?

This teacher has form by the way. A lot of it. But this has for some reason blindsided me.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I thought the person was shitstirring tbh. I have never heard about such a thing and I didn't think that it had happened. For a stillborn baby I can understand. I'm so sorry.

I really wish there was a ‘react’ button to show how objectionable you find a remark!😢

I'd have been fascinated by something like that at that age!
13/14 is a really hard age group to interest, and if your teenager had enough thoughts about it to mention it when they got home, I'd say it worked!!

I said I was sorry. I thought this was all made up and I found it macabre. I am really sorry for having misunderstood and hurt people's feelings.

@Friendlynortherner nineteenth century death photography definitely exists - and in America at the time, too - even though a lot of the images that are claimed on the internet to be postmortem photography aren’t actually of dead people. But it does exist, usually where it’s obvious that the person/child is deceased. In America it was more usual to photograph a deceased child in the coffin, rather than posed on a couch as if sleeping.

There is also an analogous tradition of the deathbed portrait, often completed post mortem, or even the death mask, dating back before the advent of photography (for example in Van Dyck’s portrait of Venetia, Lady Digby).

It’s a hard one to understand, it’s okay. When my own MIL found out, she was horrified and was really nasty about it. But it helped me, just to do one normal thing that people take for granted, and I am sure that some parents of older babies would find taking them for a walk one last time would be somewhat healing too, while others wouldn’t contemplate it. We all grieve differently, and unless you have had a still birth or have lost a child, you (thankfully) don’t have to go to these places in your mind.

Okay so, I cross posted with your apology.

I disagree with the OP but have enjoyed this thread, I've found it really interesting. I feel like I've learnt a lot, especially about Victorian post-mortem photography (and misconceptions about it), something I've always found fascinating. Useful to hear about ways of telling a story in a way that genuinely engages young people too!

OP won't be back now I wager

She's had her ego boosted by those who agreed and enjoyed her little anti-teacher rant

She won't come and answer how she knows exactly what happened in the lesson (which was no doubt much more than these photos but the photos are what her DC remembers) or what other "questionable" things the teacher has done

She also changed her story from being "disturbed" by the photos to disagreeing with the lesson content, presumably when most posters pointed out that the photos weren't particularly disturbing or inappropriate for the age

If she's doing social history then mortuary photography is an interesting introduction into the Victorian view of death. Quite pertinent to the Industrial Revolution, and the Victorian period when the infant mortality rate in all families was high - and this is the case well into the twentieth century. My mother had a brother who died of TB and a cousin who died at 6, I had a cousin die in infancy and my mother-in-law kept the mortuary picture of her older brother, dead a 4 from pneumonia, in her bedroom and this is the 2010s because he died c. 1928. A good reminder of how vaccination and regulated water supplies (and cheaper food including cheap white bread) have increased child health and longevity and so very pertinent to the study of the Industrial Revolution - one good invention was sewers. Daresay she will explain how a bessemer converter works at some point, too.

100% this. It's a free for all when it comes to undermining teachers. Just open your mouth OP and have a conversation with the teacher - like a grown up.

If we were more accepting of death as the Victorians were then there wouldn’t be so many issues with people struggling to get their minds around death when it inevitably happens to someone they love.

Victorian memento mori photography is beautiful. I have a life-long fascination of funerary rites and other things associated with death because I was fortunate enough not to be shielded as a child. I would perhaps consider what your own revulsion really means here.

Exactly this. I loved history and had a lovely teacher. The Tudors were alive for me as was restoration English and later WW2. The Industrial Revolution however bored me to tears - there was so much focus on the big machinery, which is what OP repeatedly claims this teacher should be wowing a room full of early teens with. I’m sure there’s a few budding engineers who might appreciate it, but the holistic discussion of Victorian attitudes and industry around death on this thread has been utterly engaging and fascinating.

Even though I disagree with OP and think there's nothing wrong with teaching 13 -14 year olds like this (it's history, as I said, shouldn't just gloss over it or hide bits!) I must admit that I was thinking it was a bit grim to have photos of dead people.
Thinking about it more and reading posts on the thread though, as people have said there won't have been photos like we have nowadays, the only chance they may have got to get a pic was when their child was dead 🥲 💔
Truly fascinating really, I can see myself going down a Google rabbit hole later on the subject, the invention of the camera, the societal environments around it, the culture etc - which just mentions of boring buildings wouldn't have engaged me as much!
Well done that teacher 😁 Job done, getting people invested and interested lol

On the back of this I talked to DD (13) to see if she knew about them and she didnt. Showed her some photos and she was interested, agreed that it was a bit macabre but wasnt at all creeped out or worried by it.

You find it so disturbing that you can't sleep and yet you didn't even see it? You are going to have to be careful that you don't pass all this sort of stuff onto your child because they will end up with mental health issues.

We found a few of these in boxes of family photos after our parents died. It took us (siblings, aunts, uncles etc) a while to work out what they were. Yes, dead babies and children were dressed up and photographed for a memento "as if they were alive" at a time when photography was unusual and there wouldn't have been any family snaps to remember children by.

It seems a bit gruesome now but I think it is an extremely useful and relatable tool for children today to understand that cultural practices in the past (or elsewhere) are dependent on many details and shouldn't be judged too quickly.

She did it because it’s interesting and engaging. I teach French and when we do a topic about Paris I show the kids pictures of the Catacombes. They love it.

The photos were created to be seen by people of all ages and could be very interesting to young people today. I think it’s fine, and educational in several ways.

And has, inadvertently through OP, sparked the interest of quite a few posters on mumsnet too it seems!

it’s also interesting how the Victorian fascination with death ventured into the fetishistic. Tuberculosis had a big influence on beauty ideals, with people purposefully making the effort to appear consumptive: being thin, delicate, and pale was seen as beautiful. This is also reflected in art and literature - Romanticism, the pre -Raphaelites, Keats, Percy Bysshe and Mary Shelley were all influenced by it. The ‘tortured artist’ myth dates back to this era. There’s also the religious aspect to it, with the ideas of suffering quietly and dying well.

You also have huge progress being made in sanitation and medicine at this time.

Victorian death photography really is a good introduction to a huge element of social history.

I would have loved this at that age. Sounds like a teacher really trying to engage with teenagers.

It's all part of the learning. I found it fascinating when I was at school too the Victorian photography I still have a bit of an obsession with. Yes you are being oversensitive. Your child isn't bothered so why are you ? Obviously it was all taught in context

But these are the kinds of things students remember and a useful hook. It’s not your role to plan the teacher’s lesson and decide what is and isn’t relevant. I still have vivid memories of the ‘umbrella method’ of treating STIs in WW1 - but I also remember the causes of that war. So many schools now require bland PowerPoint teaching I’d be pleased if this was my child.

The arrogance in your post is quite something OP.

Great teach them to be offended and stressed by real life
Well done