"can I have a word" from teacher

[ParentofPremie]

To avoid a drip feed this is quite long, apologies!

DS5 is in reception. Oldest in class.

Has a physical disability which can cause fatigue, and potentially has other difficulties which would be undiagnosed/unnoticed until he's older. His development was all higgeldy piggledy due to his physical disability so it's hard to see what is contributing to what, and we are trying to unpick whether some of his traits are ASD or due to developmental delays eg he talks a lot more than his peers and likes learning a subject in depth and asks a lot more questions, but it's potentially because that came more easily to him than the gross and fine motor skills where he's playing catch up. Or another example is he has only just started playing alongside peers but that could be because his brain was busy figuring out how to pick up a spoon and how to walk while their brains were busy figuring out how to talk to other toddlers. Lots of other little examples like this that could be this or that.

Attends school half day because a full day seemed too much.

When he first started school his personality seemed to shift overnight. He was initially asking to go home a lot. Then he stopped that after he overheard it fed back to me at parents evening but then the teacher would often pull me aside to "have a word" because he'd done something eg hit another child (softly, but still not acceptable), or tried to cut the desk instead of paper, or swung a thing around on a string potentially hitting himself or someone in the face, etc.
At home he was having lots of tantrums.
None of this was behaviour we'd ever seen in him before - he was well settled at preschool and would ask me to "go home and come back later as it was his space" and had never shown any aggressive behaviour to anyone. I posted on here (under a different name) and got a lot of "that's normal as they transition into school, they almost revert back to 2 year old behaviour while they get used to it".

But I found it all too much and decided to Flexi school him. Again, overnight there was a shift...he loved school again and the aggression/tantrums at home dropped away. I think they dropped away at school but I can't be sure whether the teacher wasn't "having a word" because I wasn't at the school gate and she was teaching at pick up or because things actually got better, and she doesn't seem to understand my question.

Now....we're trying to transition back to full time, taking it slowly. But already day2 teacher has "had a word".

I guess my questions are

1. When the teacher has a word, what am I expected to say. "Okay, I'll talk to him"? I do talk to him. But to me, he knows the thing he's done is naughty and the behaviour is communicating a need so I'm not sure a talking to is actually that helpful? Also, the teacher has already told him off, at length. Does he need it again?

1. The school are doing very little to understand what's behind his behaviour. At the meetings I had before I decided to Flexi school they suggested I introduce routines at home where he has to tidy up after himself, do tasks on his own, etc...but he already does these things. They also suggested we introduce a "self regulation" corner for him, and we've done that. It was a new concept for me, as we've always regulated together before as this is what every parenting book I read suggested. If he has a tantrum about something I set a limit and then listen to him move on or moan/cry/fall apart over it till he's done (no aggression allowed of course) and I own that I didn't think about how that might (not) equip him for a classroom as there aren't adults around to listen to him all the time. But it was a lesson learned and he's better at taking himself away to self-regulate now.

1. To me the fact that this sort of stuff only happens in school and (I think) only when he's doing a full day is telling us something. It feels to me like he's finding something hard but is unable to share that information for some reason. If I ask the the teacher they seem to have no idea where I'm coming from. Of course I also think it's vitally important to set limits around hitting/cutting table/swinging things or whatever else is going on. But I think it's also important to find out what's behind that behaviour?

AIBU to be frustrated by this communication? Or is this just school life? Was a just totally spoilt by a child who was more easy going when he was younger and just don't realise that sometimes kids can be arses for no reason at all? I am totally up for being told I need to grow a pair and change my attitude? I just don't think I was expecting the constant "can I have a word" type conversations and am not sure what to do with them!

You’re both right.
Behaviour is, of course, communication, and the SENDCo should be trying to unpick that aspect.
But behaviour is also behaviour. If you’re the kid being hit, you don’t care what the other kid is trying to say! And the parents of the ‘hit’ child don’t care either - they just want their child protected.
The teacher is trying to deal with all of this, so needs your support with reinforcing messages at home about how they need to behave in school.

I also think the repeated whys might be an issue but I'm not sure this is related to parenting. When you describe, OP, realising that is a sign that his brain is "doing loops" and he's getting overwhelmed, that's very much like my DS (diagnosed ADHD) and other children don't do this in the same way. Even his younger brother doesn't do this. Most of the time when children are told not to do something they might ask why once, but they'd realise they were being told off and not push the issue. DS might be able to do that if he's in a great state of mind but then again if he was in that state of mind he wouldn't have the little imp on his shoulder telling him to experiment with things like cutting a table in the first place!

When he is in that overwhelmed/brain loop/imp on shoulder (slightly dysregulated) state, then he's more liable to ask why why why and not really take the information in. And I don't tend to negotiate in this mood, it's more a sign for me that it's time for a break or to switch to a different activity, check in that he might have been ignoring a need for the toilet etc. That is the part that schools don't really get because most children don't have this difficulty where they get overwhelmed and dysregulated so often, and essentially the school needs them to just not to be in that state.

I've no idea what we do about that - my son is older but we are abroad so it's only just really coming up as he's due to transition to school in September.

I always find your posts so interesting @BertieBotts !

I love the "brain loops" description. My DD definitely has those. It was a major factor in the sleep difficulties she had when she was younger.

I think that maybe the OP, like me, has only the one child and therefore nothing to compare them to.

Also to PPs saying there are 30 kids etc...hes in a small village school with only 8 in his class.

8 in a class-wow?! We have tiny village schools round here who have very small PANs but that gives us classes of 30 but a year 3/4/5/6 class. I'm amazed a class of 8 is financially viable!

See it as information. They are letting you know. If you didn't know you would think all is well which would not be good in the long run. Thank you for letting me know I will talk to him of course is all you need to say at the time. No you don't need to go overboard telling him off but I would talk to him myself about the day and ask him about that part as well.

Speak to the senco rather than the teacher about looking for triggers. Could they do some abc charts for a week to see if there is a specific trigger to the behaviour? Think about whether you need to ask for an EHCP assessment. If you think he needs more 1.1 support, this is the route to get it.

Can I just say Op, you sound lovely! I was concerned my question about consequences would come across negatively so
im glad it didn’t.
I have a lot of conversations with parents and so I often say to parents who seem unsure of what i
want ‘Id really appreciate it if you could talk to x about why cutting someone’s hair isn’t something we do to others’ or ‘could you talk to x about how that child feels about being hurt by your son’.

To add, I taught a bright, older child a few years ago and she was used to lots of discussions, lots of letting her feelings out whilst parents patiently waited for her to be calm. It meant at school
it was a shock when she had to just do things. It got to the point where I said to her parents, sometimes she needs to know she doesn’t do it because it’s dangerous and that’s it, with the other children as well we don’t have time for a long discussion each time, sometimes she needs to know she needs to stop and that’s it. Thought that might add a teachers perspective at times!

Hi OP, sorry if you've mentioned it already but does ds have a Support Plan.

At my school we would begin with a Support Plan with very specific outcomes and strategies to support these and these are reviewed every few months. All the adults working with the child would be aware of these strategies.

We would apply for an EHCP if we could show that we had tried different strategies but they were unsuccessful.

Your ds sounds lovely. I hope things improve for him.

This is very sensible advice

Nothing huge to add except that my dc has something called a MyPlan to help manage a physical difference at secondary school. They took input from all of us (both parents and dc) in Y7 about what would help and what was needed, and they review it each year. It’s a minor thing compared to EHCP but just gives teachers some information and ideas about abilities and what to do or not do, when to intervene or offer help and when not to.

I agree with getting an assessment for EHCP but in the meantime, does your school have this sort of thing? Might have a different name. Ours starts at MyPlan and goes up to MyPlan Plus. At a school I worked in years ago they called it School Action and School Action Plus. (That was back when ECHP were statements.) It might just allow some support to be put in place while you wait for the other assessments.

If he is not managing more than half a day and needs close supervision with activities like using scissors for safety, he clearly does need more support so an ehcp would be appropriate and they are illegally excluding him by not facilitating a full day when he is csa. It is not up to a ta or teacher to restrict his access to full time education and activities should be adapted to be suitable for him to participate with his peers. If the school won’t apply you can do so yourself.

I know it's only a small part of the problem, but you say that the TA is in charge of the class on a Friday afternoon. You say "his TA" so I assume it's the regular class TA. So, for the rest of the week his teacher has a TA to support the class. On a Friday afternoon, which can be tricky at the best of times, it sounds like the TA has to manage the class on her own. I think you're right in considering that Fridays aren't the best choice for his full day.

Well, I have two ADHD children and DS3 is too young to call it, so I'm not sure my experience of "normal" is much use either - I was quite baffled TBH when nursery said they were concerned about DS3's development because he seems much further ahead of where my older two were at the same age. However we moved to a different nursery (because we moved) and they are not concerned. So I think that at the other nursery, he was either quite anxious because they also didn't tell me for a year (!!) that he refused to speak to them and would only speak through DS2 translating. Or, it's possible that they were marking him against milestones which were for 3yos rather than 2yos - it was an odd nursery in general. The new one is much more communicative. But for example, we didn't realise until I saw him at nursery doing his own shoes/coat/etc that it's typical for 3yos to be able to do that kind of thing on their own. Neither DS1 or DS2 could, because they couldn't hold that number of instructions in mind. They could physically do it, but needed to be reminded of each step even up to around age 5. Whereas DS3 can fully dress and undress himself without help (and frequently does because he is a little nudist ) And there are other things DS3 can do aged 3.5 but DS2 still struggles with even though he is 6.5.

Also, brain loops was OP's phrase not mine - brill and I will definitely be stealing that. Really helpful way to look at it, I had been thinking "dysregulation" but while that was a fantastic word and concept when I first discovered it about 6 years ago, now it's such a buzzword it seems to be used everywhere and I've found that people all have their own understanding of it. So while I understand it to mean quite a specific thing, where what's happening under the surface is that the prefrontal cortex is overwhelmed and is less in control of the whole operation, a lot of people use it to mean "mardy" or "not doing what I want" or "upset in any way". It's confusing, because all of those things CAN be signs of dysregulation, but it's not necessarily dysregulated to feel emotions or be a bit tired or for a child to have an agenda which is different to an adult's or have different expectations to the adult. Sometimes those things are just those things.

I've not read every post but I would be speaking to the Senco/headteacher about the "you might not be able to come to school in the afternoon if..." from the TA. If he does have ASD, this introducing the unknown will massively increase his anxiety and will be counter productive. He likely needs to know with certainty when school starts and ends every day. There were a couple of nursery staff at my DS's place who liked the "I'll have to call your mum if you..." tactic and never worked.

If he's compulsory school age, I would not flexi school again. He has a right to a full time education and also, you are solving the school's problem for them and potentially not collecting evidence that can support an EHCP application, which I agree you should put in asap. If they refuse, appeal - sometimes you just get to show you won't go away.

My son now does have an EHCP, but before this I had most success physically giving school/nursery written information and forms. "Eg, here is an ABC chart to record triggers and behaviours" or "here is a list of strategies that work for us at home."

With the "can I have a word?" reports, you can just say "thanks for letting me know." With your DS, rather than telling off, you could try discussing in a "did you get the outcome you wanted and what could you have done instead?" Of course, sometimes he can't have his desired outcome! But if it's eg hitting a child who is being too loud, there might be another path to getting what he wants. But bear in mind, and maybe remind the teacher, that if he is autistic, he may struggle to generalise from one situation to another, so he may have to have "how to ask for help/how to regulate/how to remove himself' modelled over and over.

Very good point!

What really helped my son was when I spoke to him about behaviour incidents I made it clear he wouldn’t get in trouble for telling his teacher he was struggling but he will be getting in trouble for the behaviours. Once he understood he has a choice between support or discipline depending on how he manages his feelings progress was made. This did take a couple years at least however and one bad teacher telling him off for saying he was struggling caused massive meltdowns and trauma from being restrained- so you do need the school to work with you. My child is autistic

I am wondering if fatigue is leading to him getting overwhelmed/brain-loopy? You said that in his flexi school schedule he started enjoying school again, but this whole day is on a Friday- maybe earlier in the week might be better.