to be tired of the jealousy towards people who WFH?

[WFHFan]

No one can post a thread about it without someone chiming in threatening if their job can done from home then it could be given to someone in another country or AI could take it.

Other people saying companies want everyone back in the office. Yes some do. Mine doesn't. They do not have the space anymore. Neither will my job go to someone in another country because of expertise and it does involve some critical face to face work. AI can't do it either.

Then some people getting offended saying if someone is WFH they shouldn't do anything else but work non stop. I can work and I do chores, shopping, school pick up, errands. It does not affect the standard or quantity of my work. I don't doubt it does affect some people's work.

I have won two awards for performance already.

Then that is poor management. If staff aren't doing their job, whether in or out of the office, then it needs to be dealt with.

When we first moved to hybrid working a colleague was like that. Could never contact them, seemed to disappear for hours etc. But it was dealt with under poor performance like any similar issue would have been, whether in or out of office.

Agree.
and that’s exactly how we did deal with it.
but some jobs just don’t work remotely.

We had an applicant for a job we had as Site Architect…they wanted to work from home ! ?

I think there are two competing narratives.

The absolutely inflexible 5 days a week 9-5 (at least) did exclude a lot of people from the workforce and was arguably sexist as more women care for children.

So, the flexibility of working shorter days in the office or having a couple of days WFH, in professions where it works, seems really sensible.

OTOH, if this positive effect were significant, we would have seen our GDP per capita surge since COVID. We definitely haven’t!

And, as I said above, professional life is about more than completing tasks. A successful workplace has a supportive atmosphere and a social aspect too, most importantly for younger staff.

As a small example, when I was teaching I had to mentor a youngish second career teacher. She wasn’t really a natural so I often had to deliver a hard message in formal meetings. The reason I was able to do that is by developing a positive relationship the rest of the time, chatting to her, getting her drinks, helping her prepare etc etc. I just don’t know how that kind of informal support works without face-to-face.

Offices didn’t always exist. They emerged to fulfil a need. The internet has reduced part of the rationale for offices but I think it is only a small part.

Love this concept. Great that those women's needs are finally being recognised.

A friend who is actually an architect works from home - unless they need to be at one of multiple sites. Desk work is done at home, site work done on site.

It's just jealousy, and a lack of understanding. My job is complex and very niche, but can be mostly done from my computer. It used to involve some travel, but with the increase in use of video-conferencing that's rarely needed now. Most people I know can't get their heads around what I do and as usual when people don't understand something they react badly to it and resort to trying to bring me down.

I happily do my job from home, but I'd also just as happily do it in an office. I have a home office and I work in it all day, only leaving to make a tea or have lunch. I do just as much work as I did when I was in the office, but with less chatting in the kitchen/corridors. I've probably replaced corridor chats with a few mins on MN here and there just to get a mental break!

I don't doubt many people take the piss when WFH. I do get annoyed when colleagues are blatantly minding their toddlers at the same time as working, which is against our employers remote working policy. But at the same time, when I was working in the office, there were individuals who did nothing but chat or find random things to do that didn't need doing in order to avoid doing their actual work. So it's no different. Being physically in a work place does not equal doing actual work.

The way we work was invented a very long time ago when technology wasn't what it is now. I have no idea why people do not want to embrace the chances that are now possible. I believe it's a mixture of jealousy, and everyone knowing at least 1 person who massively takes the piss with it. But skivers are gonna skive. They'll do it in the office just as much as they will at home.

There's a Pedants Corner on here if you'd like to take your grumbles over there.

Swathes of nurses are saying 'F this, I'm out of here' for many reasons. I would also question the vocational element these days and guess that most nurses don't recognise the job as what they signed up for. Due to cuts they're not able to provide adequate care in a lot of cases. Anyway, what I was more saying is, take a class of 16 year olds considering their career options. Now that WFH is more common in a lot of jobs that is something people will take into account. Where nursing may have appealed before due to long shifts and unsocial hours but more days off, you've now got people thinking well okay I'd have to do 9-5 but I'd be in the house 5 days a week so it's not so bad.

Agree and we do as well.
Just not many days as designing, we find, is easier together.
Along with checking drawings and cross referencing Structural and M&E work too.
Its not not possible, it’s just better together and more constructive,
.
During the pandemic we were able to cope but there was less early design and coordination work going on. Site work obviously continued on site.

I think it depends on the jobs and your role. We have people at home detailing and writing specs for example.

Swathes of nurses are saying 'F this, I'm out of here' for many reasons.

I’m not denying that. But making jobs where you can potentially WFH less attractive is not the way to tackle this.

People are so quick to assume they can’t get hold of public sector workers because they’re WFH and not factoring in that there are so few of us now. My service has 60% fewer bodies than 5 years ago in addition to additional statutory duties coming in. Yup, it’s going to take a while until you reach the top of my list.

And as for the background noise thing when you are trying to talk to me, on the days when we’re in the office we’ve been herded into smaller and smaller spaces and had our mobile phones taken off us. We can only have 1 person on Teams at any one time in the room I have to share with 9 other people, it’s a nightmare at both ends of the call.

@IndigoViolentbut the problem is that less nurses/ doctors/ teachers/ T.A’s is that it’s everyone’s problem. My heart sinks when my daughter’s T.A resigns, it happens at least every six months and then we have two months of her being really unsettled, unhappy to go to school.
Ideally I don’t think the key is making WFH less attractive but making those positions more appealing. But how? Local authorities have no money, the NHS has no money, demean on services is increasing, acuity is more severe. Mental health now is nothing like it was twenty years ago, assaults are now common. Being filmed is now common.
It is something we do for the love of it, but there comes a point where we think why? Especially after you have children, and all the other parents have more money, free time, look less stressed, don’t miss any plays, sports days. We have to all do what’s best for our families.

I don't think anyone would want to swap with me quite honestly. I've been working from home because I can't walk or do anything really while I wait for a major operation which is taking forever.
My job involves triaging and literally being stuck to the screen all day long trouble shooting for staff, solving problems and foing paperwork and letters clinicians are too busy to do. I also do online clinics for patients who don't actually need to be seen in person.
It's pretty mind exhausting znd I'd rather be in clinic quite honestly as there is a limit of 9 people a day I can treat. I have no limit and have to keep going until I'm done.
I can't go for a nap or put some washing on. There is no time.

Nonsense. 😆

People do washing, prep for dinner, walking the dog, have haircuts, do housework, make private phone calls, and all manner of shit when 'working' from home (and some even do also childcare/have their kids at home, when they are 'working.')

NO-ONE can do this if they are in the workplace, and some WFH people have proven again and again that they are lazy and unproductive at home, and have admitted they swing the lead half the time they're meant to be 'working' by doing all this extra shit. And this is why they are complaining about being asked to go back into the office, because 'wah wah wah, I won't be able to do it anymore. waaaaaaaaaahhhh!' 😖😢 THIS is why bosses want them back.

Don't even TRY to pretend that the things people do in the office environment - like going to the loo, or chatting to another colleague is anything like the things people who work from home do. They take the piss. (Not all but many!)

Your answer is ludicrous.

This. ^ Just like I said. Unfortunately, some work from home people have become lazy and unproductive and entitled. THIS is why they are wanted back in the office now. Bosses have cottoned on them.

The party is over you shirkers! 😆

(Not ALL work from home people are lazy shirkers of course, but some are. Especially the ones who are whining and crowing and moaning about being asked back into the office! People admitting they do washing and ironing and childcare and walking the dog, and have afternoon naps, and go outside sunbathing when they are meant to be working - along with 2 hour lunch breaks - has done them NO favours!)

This again. Those people that keep the country afloat during Covid couldn't work from home.

The sense of entitlement is ridiculous. Civil servants particularly.

In our organisation the SOME (as you noted, not all) people who are lazy when WFH are the ones who when we were in the office 5 days a week would disappear for ages, sit at their desks chatting, refuse to check there was adequate phone cover before just walking off for their break, take 30 minutes to make a cuppa, and were generally slow at doing their jobs anyway.

Those of us who are productive at home were productive in the office. I'm actually more productive at home because people wanting to chat have to actually call me (and I can ignore them if it's not essential) instead of just plonking themselves by my desk.

I used to have a queue at my desk of people wanting help or answers to a question. They have to message, email or call now and I can more easily prioritise.

It's not WFH that makes people lazy. Lazy people are lazy wherever they work. Productive people are productive wherever they work.

As long as you admit that you have privileges that others don’t and that you have it easier, it’s fine. Some jobs can’t physically be done from home and we trained before wfh was widespread. Yes I’m jealous of my friends who have all this flexibility and their homes run like clockwork.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos

It's not WFH that makes people lazy. Lazy people are lazy wherever they work. Productive people are productive wherever they work.

You may have a point there, but I do think SOME people have become lazy and entitled from 4-5 years of 'working' from home. And you can tell who the lazy fuckers are. They are the ones who don't want to go back to the office. They know they won't be able to do all the shit they do in work hours if they're in the office!

I don't think WFH is the reason TA's are leaving. They are hideously underpaid, yet taking on more and more work outside of their original remit. Pay them a fair salary and many more will stay, I am sure.

I think lots of jobs can be done remotely, I notice the trains are much quieter on Mondays and Fridays, and pubs in London are busier on Thursdays because its the new Friday.

I'm sure most people work just as well from home but I'm intrigued by the volume of people on MN who insist they can get all their work done to the accepted standard in 2 or 3 hours a day, regularly , at home, leaving time for childcare, laundry, cooking, the gym etc. Surely that is a pt job? When they were in the office I get that there are breaks, chatting etc but were they actually only working for 25-30% of the time?

One person on AMA said they had 2 (high paying) "FT" jobs that they did from home while looking after a toddler, and spent 1-2 hrs a day on each!

And others thinking it's a huge imposition if they are asked to go back to the office even once a month, and making a thread asking what they can do to avoid it.

I'm sure hybrid works well for lots of businesses and employees though, and that seems pretty common.

Not read the full thread, so apologies if I’ve missed anything, but I think there are pluses and minuses of both, and I think your view on it is definitely influenced by who you work for, what you do, and I think to some extent, your level of experience in your job.

Pre Covid I was predominantly office based and spent 90mins per day commuting. If I had to attend meetings, that might mean anything from an hour to 5 hours getting to and from that meeting. All of that was unproductive time, as in general driving would be the only option due to lack of public transport. I’m 25 years into my career, so I can work very independently, and am probably the most experienced and well qualified in our team, despite not being the most senior. My kids are both at school, so the move to home working for me has been an absolute godsend, in terms of being at home when they get home. Does that mean I think it’s great for everyone? well as all the posts above demonstrate, not everyone works in the same way. My own DH is very much an advocate of collaborative office based work, and his company expect staff in the office most of the time.

do I think some people are jealous? Not sure if jealous is the right word, but I think some people genuinely do not understand how people can be paid for being at home all day. But it works well for me, and the rest of my team. We still deliver significant output, and are happier because we are not commuting hours on end to sit in an awful office (our actual base was recently condemned to demolition!)

Totally agree

If they've been able to become lazy then it's not being managed properly. They were likely always lazy but having visibility meant that was managed. Managers have to adapt to WFH and more remote working too.

And not all people who would prefer to remain WFH don't want to go back to the office because they can't skive anymore. I don't skive. I'd rather not go back full time because I can work more effectively without having to deal with all the in person drop ins. I can manage my hours better when I'm not trying to walk out of the office at the end of my shift and having people ask me "just one more thing" and am instead able to just close my laptop and handle those queries tomorrow.

I definitely am able to manage home life better but it's because I can use my lunch break and my previous commute time to do housework, not because I'm doing things when I'm being paid to work.

DH is on site 5 days a week, he WFH once a month or so to write up reports or because the company car needs changing or servicing or something. He has issues with lazy people not pulling their weight on site.

Basically, whatever your role, organisation or location, there will be people who take the piss. It's not unique to WFH and it should be managed appropriately by line managers or heads of department. A blanket "WFH is making the workforce lazy so they should all be on site" isn't the way forward.

It is not that hard to understand. It depends on the job and the workflow. It wouldn't make any sense for my employer to make my job part time as the workload varies so much.

When I was in the office full time, there were quiet periods then too. Obviously I had to stay there for set hours but I would get all my life admin done.