Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

[ZoggyStirdust]

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

And the other point to make is that those religious rules that society is founded and dependent on soon get twisted and subverted when it suits religious leaders.

"Thou shalt not kill" - unless it's people who don't believe what you do, even if it's the same God, just with different fancy dress and accessories, because a King didn't like the concept of divorce.

It may be history, but proponents of Christianity in particular, who claim it's all "love and light" are carrying the banner for scores of brutal acts because the belief / faith that underpinned those acts was the same if you're going by Bible and associated dogma.

If it was any other organisation, it should have been cancelled by now by modern standards.

I guess in those specific words they are ‘religious rules’. Use a ‘thou’ in a rule and of course it’s associated with the Bible for most people.

But ‘murder is illegal’ and ‘stealing is illegal’ are rules (laws) that don’t require religion. Hence why they are pretty globally adhered to, regardless of faith.

I’m always baffled at how many US Christians are anti abortion because they say it’s always wrong to take a life… but support the death penalty.

It's the flip flop between "thou shalt not kill" and "an eye for an eye" depending on the day and who benefits most. Rank hypocrisy.

Before organised religion? Maybe people didn't know right from wrong, so it was ok to take women from the next door clan and to kill their menfolk because you could. Religion is an attempt to regulate life so that all can live together, co-operating if possible and with a code of conduct that means we are not all at each others' throats in order to sustain our lives and get and keep resources.

You need to have a read of the old testament. All those things were actively encouraged in parts of it. Move outside of the Abrahamic religions. Plenty of others had organised religions that encouraged slavery, human sacrifice etc. Your definition of religion or even organised religion is very narrow.

KeepHopeful · Yesterday 14:46

The sinner who repents, submits to God and accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour - yes, he goes to heaven.

Well! It's a bit harsh to single me out for your emotional blackmail!

Of the Ten Commandments, the ones that most people follow (regardless of their faith) existed in various societies around the world for centuries before even the Old Testament was written (including in laws that were reduced to writing).

Moses basically jotted down the typical rules by which societies had already governed themselves for at least several centuries, threw in a couple of "I'm the only real God" type ones and gave himself Saturdays off. I'll thank him for the latter.

3 of the 10 Commandments are the same, about only having one deity.

Good grief, morality and doing the right thing like not killing, not stealing are not religious concepts/rules and certainly predate your religion. Rudimentary codes of conduct existed among some of the most archaic societies. That’s one of the ways they could advance and sustain themselves. If a person needs religious rules to behave themselves then there are bigger issues. There weee many good and decent people before Jesus rocked up.

I couldn’t tell you what the Commandments are - not relevant

Assuming all true didn’t those that lived back then have an unfair advantage re: belief? If you witnessed the miracles etc then a no brainer perhaps? Would this be weighed up?

Why not start life elsewhere if God too?

I don't know how seriously to take this 🤔.

You chose your username! If it's an honest admission that you sin then that's better than pretending to be perfect. Everybody sins.

New King James Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

The Old Testament Hebrew word for sin is khata. It means to fail or miss the goal. Darts players used to call a dart falling short a sinner.

Everyone sins in some way. Put me in touch with anybody who says they live without sinning and I'll prove them a liar in minutes. Starting with the sin of pride! 😁

Information and advice isn't blackmail 🙂.

Sin is a religious concept - as an atheist not something I think about. There is no religious punishment for atheists.

Jesus confirmed His teaching with miracles, signs and wonders. He told his Apostles to heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out demons, He gave them the authority, and they did.

Most of the church decided that the spiritual gifts - prophecy, miracles, healings etc. - were only for those Apostles. They were wrong, the gifts are actually given to all believers.

More Christians accept this and actually use the gifts in some ways in recent times. Note the start of big healing ministries in the late 1800s.

Yesterday I posted a comment including a list of names to look up. Those people describe healings and other miracles that God does now.

Hint - the more open minded people are about God's healings, the more there will be.

What about eternal reward or punishment, depending on the path people take? You believe the Bible is wrong on that, but you won't actually know until the time comes.

Healing ministries in the 1800s you say? How convenient that that coincides directly with the emergence of modern medicine…

Surely DNA is proof of evolution?

There isn’t an eternal life - you just die, the end. Doesn’t matter how you have lived your life - death is a great leveller.

From what you have been posting about sin, doesn’t sound like anyone will be good enough, so why worry about it. Just enjoy the one life you have been given. Definitely confirms my thoughts that atheists have a much happier life.

The Royal Institute Christmas lectures are a brilliant way of learning from experts.

Irrelevant! When somebody who was crippled gets up and walks, and a blind person sees clearly, it's obviously down to the healing ministry at that moment.

Or theatre. Got to keep the money rolling in ;)

Or to the placebo effect.

Duck billed platypus!!

You're deliberately missing the entire point of Jesus's death. It was to exchange His righteousness for our sins, because nobody can live sin-free by their own efforts. The Bible says that very clearly.

Research shows that people who practice a religion, especially Christianity, are happier than those who don't.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/01/31/are-religious-people-happier-healthier-our-new-global-study-explores-this-question/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6182728/

www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/03/23/religion-effect-on-happiness/

Am not missing the point - if you want to live your life with religious rules and punishment for sins, that’s up to you. Not something I believe in .

Jesus got executed because he got caught breaking the laws of the time. Nothing to do with anyone else’s sins.

From reading this thread, my life is way happier than anyone here following a religious set of rules and limitations.