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To Think That Archaeology Proves That Men Cannot Be Women

137 replies

MrsMappFlint · 23/04/2025 08:31

A burial site has been found in Cardiff. It dates from the 6th or 7th Century.
The skeletons are all women.

In death, when all genitals have gone, the skeleton retains the truth about the simple fact-it is either male or female.

There is no third way. That's science and hundreds of years after death, the truth of biology is retained in the bone.

Your sex is in your very bones-male or female-that's it. In the end, that's all there is.

Men can pretend to be women but skeletons tell the truth.

The story is on the BBC website.

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:04

Holdonforsummer · 23/04/2025 08:35

Intersex people might disagree but don’t let that get in the way of your argument.

Intersex people are a) rare and b) either male or female since Differences in Sexual Development (the term preferred by people who have these conditions) are sex specific. Our skeletons do indeed record our sex.

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:06

Archymum · 23/04/2025 08:37

Archaeology also demonstrates that for tens of thousands of years, since the very earliest evidence of anatomically and behaviourally modern humans (Homo sapiens), some individuals in every society on the globe conformed to non-binary gender identities and roles. In the European Upper Palaeolithic, some of these individuals were celebrated and revered as spiritual leaders in their communities (i.e. shamans).

They didn't change sex. Gender norms are social constructs and some people have always subverted them - that doesn't mean they changed sex.

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:06

proximalhumerous · 23/04/2025 09:26

Your second statement is incorrect. Some DSDs arise precisely because an individual's chromosomes do not fit the typical XX or XY binary.

But they are still either male or female since DSDs are sex-specific.

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:10

Archymum · 23/04/2025 09:00

The only reliable part of the human skeleton that can be used to make a sex ID within the archaeological record is the pelvis. There is a fairly large range in the morphology of a "typical" pelvis for both sexes and the area of overlap is relatively large. This is because humans display relatively less sexual dimorphism than many other species of primate. Because of this, almost all sex IDs for archaeological skeletal remains are estimates because many pelvises fall in the range where they might be either male or female.

Eyebrow ridges or lack of, also, I believe. Males have pronounced ones. This was one means of identifying the sex of the skeleton which proved to be Richard III - along with the pelvis - despite the slightness of the bones. Richard was in life described as slight, which did not prevent him fighting in battle with a battle axe and lance.

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:13

SummerFeverVenice · 23/04/2025 09:18

Very true, we can discern third gender from historical records, but when it comes to societies with no written record we really have no idea how a woman in a male dominated role or vice versa was viewed. Certainly can’t extrapolate gender identity from any archaeological evidence alone.

But where there are historical records..the people talking about themselves and their society we do find third genders (and more)

Edited

No, we find what we interpret as 'third genders'. How we see 'gender' is most likely not the way the societies where cross-role taking was acceptable saw the matter at all.

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:16

BallerinaRadio · 23/04/2025 09:07

Jesus Christ we're going back to the 6th century now to try and prove a point.

You've got your court judgement, you've 'won' is that not enough? Do we need this continuous stream of posts?

Why are you so upset by the SC judgement?

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:17

DNA also identified both Richard and his sex.

Berrytea · 25/04/2025 00:18

You can’t tell by what’s left of someone physically wether someone was gay or not.
that doesn’t make it any less real
identifying as the opposite gender is in the mind

Valeriekat · 25/04/2025 11:42

Holdonforsummer · 23/04/2025 08:35

Intersex people might disagree but don’t let that get in the way of your argument.

LOL! No such thing.

Valeriekat · 25/04/2025 11:52

KimberleyClark · 23/04/2025 16:40

I disagree too. Is not the term cock in a frock nasty and sneering?

At least it isn't a death or rape threat but I suppose those are OK as they are only directed at TERFs

proximalhumerous · 25/04/2025 16:18

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 00:06

But they are still either male or female since DSDs are sex-specific.

Agreed.

Grammarnut · 25/04/2025 16:45

Berrytea · 25/04/2025 00:18

You can’t tell by what’s left of someone physically wether someone was gay or not.
that doesn’t make it any less real
identifying as the opposite gender is in the mind

Edited

So we won't know if a person was homosexual, but we will know their sex. In most past societies being homosexual was taboo, so will have had an impact on anyone so inclined, of course. Only when we have societies which leave written records can we guess at such things - so we know that upper class males in Classical Greece tended to have a wife, a mistress and a male lover, for example, because we find that in their literature.
What we glean elsewhere can only give a partial picture. But sexual orientation is something subject to proof - gender ideology is not.

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