To think somethings wrong with DD(4)

[yikesorbikes]

DD is the 6th 4 year old I’ve raised including SC and I’ve worked with children in the past so am not an anxious FTM.

School haven’t shared any concerns, everything is just put down to her being the youngest but there are several children with SEN and as she’s doing well academically and not particularly disruptive I do think she gets overlooked.

I’ll try not to make it too long but this is an overview of my main concerns.

-She hasn’t made any friends. She’s not shy and is perfectly good at communicating just chooses to run around and play on the obstacle trail on her own at school
If I ask her about who she likes and who she talks to she only has bad things to say about everybody. She doesn’t want anyone from her class at her birthday for example.

-She has a very active imagination, spends a lot of time making up really detailed stories in her head that she remembers months later. She can entertain herself for hours with a pen and paper writing stories and drawing pictures. This has lead to a lot of lying, most of the time it’s just that she saw something flying or an animal spoke to her but she has said more serious lies such as someone hurting or saying something horrible when they didn’t. Sometimes I don’t know if she knows that she’s lying.

• she doesn’t really have any fear or risk aversion, will climb and jump off anything.

When she falls she just gets up, she hasn’t cried from pain for over a year despite always being covered in bruises and scabs. She also doesn’t really ever seek out comfort or reassurance.

-She’s quite morbid and obsessed with ghost and monsters. She will talk about things like death, fights, fire and people getting hurt often which has upset other children and which she doesn’t seem to understand.

• She’s very critical of others and herself, will say she/they are stupid and pointless for not being able to do certain things. She’s also said things like someone isn’t allowed to do something nice or fun because they didn’t do something else well enough.

AIBU to be concerned? Does this sound normal to you?

It doesn’t seem that strange to me.

The op could read as :

Fearless girl who has a great imagination. But shy still, cos she's only four.

Why are people constantly seeking a diagnosis??

My DD was absolutely fearless at four... Now she's 8 she's more restrained. This comes with age and experience -

Of course the goal shouldn't be to diagnose just for the sake of labelling a child but I don't think OP is trying to do that. They are wondering about differences they have noticed (with the benefit of experience, which counts for a lot), and trying to understand their precious child, which is what parenting is all about.

There is a lot of variation in the way humans are wired and if you are an individual and you notice you vary from the "norm", or are in a significant relationship with someone who is "atypical", it can be extremely helpful/an enormous relief/life-changing to have a clearer idea of what is going on.

Sounds very similar to my dd, reentry diagnosed with autism and adhd

This DOES NOT sound like autism at all. It isn’t how a girl might “present”, either.

however, it could be to do with mental health - such as schizophrenia. Get a proper psychiatrist assessment done if you are worried.

The sooner you help her get a diagnosis the better. It takes years for support to be given. Don’t put her at a disadvantage because you don’t think she needs input and support, you need to be proactive and not wait until the wheels fall off

A four year old with a vivid imagination is not schizophrenic ffs

Diagnosis of what? Support for what? She isn’t struggling. She’s not great at making friends, but otherwise appears to be fine. Not everything is a condition.

This!!!!

What on earth are you on about!!! 1 Schizophrenia doesn’t present until puberty hits and it absolutely does sound like autism. But also how can you diagnose!!!!

Sounds like me. I broke my arm a few times and never complained - when i did eventually get an x ray I had three old breaks and social services got involved. I didn’t really have friends until a new girl arrived at school when I was about 7. She was equally weird.
i lived in my own head, believed what was happening and listened to the many voices. I loved monsters, vampires and graveyards. Told many stories that I believed to be true. Grew up to be a teenage goth and found my tribe!
Fast forward to now I am a quirky adult that reads fantasy and teaches English. I also have ADHD, diagnosed later on. I am still happy in my own worlds but have a great circle of friends and a fantastic, equally weird son!

This is obviously a big concern, I’ve avoided doing any research but I do know it’s not a diagnosable condition in under 18s.
I would worry that if I perused a adhd/autism diagnosis and it was rejected as I don’t believe she meets the criteria we would be left with a suggestion of waiting for something like this and I don’t know how helpful that would be.
Thankyou for the link

Her behaviour isn’t actually that bad, she generally does as she’s told and isn’t disruptive
But if she does misbehave punishments don’t work on her at all, she would be completely unbothered by any consequence.
shes learnt ‘if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything at all’ and a lot of the times when she’s said mean things it’s because she’s been specifically been asked her opinion rather than unprovoked.

The lying is hard because other people and her school encourage the harmless lies under her having an active imagination and it’s difficult to tell when they become harmful or even if she is actually lying.

Rather than being a psychopathic schizophrenic as other posters are implying, maybe with five siblings, the last thing she wants is to add further children into the home?

It was always difficult to have your own anything in my family - there was always somebody else around to disturb, want to know what you were doing, making noise, want to take what you've got, squabble with somebody else, bring their mates around, occupy the space you wanted to exist in (and prepared to dump you off your seat onto the floor in order to do it).

Ten years ago of my DD was diagnosed with ASD in specific areas and where other areas are largely unaffected or very mild.
My DD's communication is pretty good and when she was younger she had very few symptoms.
Her difficulties have increased as she's gotten older.
I think it's worth pursuing a diagnosis or understanding of your dd.

‘If she does misbehave punishments don’t work’

Classic ND

Omg she is not a psychopath. You are going to do serious damage to your daughter

I can see how being from a big family could be part of the issue.

She actually gets on with her siblings and their friends well and seeks out getting to talk to them. We obviously ensure each child has their own space, things and time.

Are you serious!!!!! What qualifies you to say this!!!!! Dangerous!!! Shes not a psychopath shes a little girl probably with autism

I’m not saying she is, she 4. Also like I said I haven’t even done any research into it but people do grow up to be psychopaths, they have to be somebodies children.

I am worried about certain things and want to address them and support her, my concern is causing the least damage and giving her the best future regardless.

I think if you think there’s something then your instincts are probably right and there is something. Time will tell. Just let it be and when you need to you can seek more info. You may find you’re the only one in your family that thinks there’s something but that’s because you know her best. Trust your instincts. Wait till she needs you to intervene and then you can pursue via Camhs.

DD is autistic and also doesn't really appear to feel pain- she also has to be really really ill to mention it. Alexythmia is one of the big features of her profile and apparently this is part of it- so she does actually feel pain but doesn't have a recognition of it in her body.

She has lots of other very clear traits as well though, some of which are disabling. She also has the same feelings about classmates as your Dd- down to other kids wanting to be friends and her just not caring. Great behaviour at school though, doing pretty well academically. Sensory stuff I would say is mild, comparatively. We dont have issues with clothes or change, only excessive noise.

So both typical and atypical! There's no rush though, it's not like when you get a diagnosis the cavalry sweeps in. You might get a leaflet. So if all is OK at the moment you might want to watch and wait a bit before pursuing anything.

This! Look into alexythmia. I have worked with autistic children for over ten years and have taught quite a few girls who very much fit your daughters presentation, I would let her get on with it if she’s doing well but look at support for secondary as it’s a massive jump. Yes psychopaths are someone’s children but she does not fit the profile, look into childhood presentation of psychopaths. She isn’t burning cats alive.

It all sounds very similar to my DD, also same age. I observe her in social situations and she plays with others for a little while and then prefers solitude. The pen and paper, very imaginative, could get lost in drawing, hell I think I could open an art shop with the amount of supplies / bits of paper she has. She has also gone through a morbid phase, totally obsessed with death which was sparked by something seen on telly - the thing I think that fuelled that though was me trying to be truthful but age appropriate so every answer I gave her, led to more questions. She would randomly bring up (what happens after death for example) in the car so I know she was thinking about it often. Those things I would say are typical, I have no hunch about SEN.

however,

not feeling pain, describing people she knows being fictionally hurt, the really far fetched lies (kids do lie though, or make things up, I guess your DD is a lot more vivid) - those would perhaps make me think it’s worth keeping an eye.

I don’t know if she fits alexythmia completely.
she can identify and express some emotions, I think at least to an extent that’s reasonable for a 4 year old. She says things like she’s bored, frustrated, angry etc.
She also doesn’t really struggle regulating her emotions, doesn’t have meltdowns for example
With pain, she definitely feels it. Scrunches up her face and goes quiet. She just really fights crying over it.
it also say that children with alexythmia have reduced imaginative process and capacity to fantasise which definitely doesn’t fit.