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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say the behaviour crisis in schools can't just be blamed on parenting

416 replies

Sendcrisis2025 · 19/04/2025 12:44

I speak as a mum of two children with EHCPs and someone who is a SENDIASS officer, name changed to protect my identity/job.

There is a strong rhetoric from the teaching unions this week about behaviour in schools and poor parenting. No mention of the bigger picture, just poor parenting.

My DC are 10 and 8, just two years behind them. When DC1 was a toddler there was a huge range of groups, support, targeted interventions through the local sure start centre. These were already being cut by the time my DC2 was a toddler. Then covid happened and the services and groups have just not returned. There is no early support anymore.

One of my DC is a challenge in school, fortuantly she is predominantly a flight risk rather than violent but still a behavioural challenge. We have had one physical incident where she shoved a teacher. Pure combination of factors that had led to DC being enclosed within a corner by several children and with nowhere to escape to she shoved to escape. Unacceptable but that was the reasoning of why and she was suspended for two days etc. She struggles to cope with the sensory demands of mainstream. Too many children, too much going on. They fly through the content whereas she likes to master things in depth before moving on. Too many low level behavioural issues like children who just don't ever stop talking. She can't navigate social dynamics. None of this DC can cope with. There is a lack of consistency in the school day and the routines. None of this is the school's fault but realistically how it is in every mainstream school. We are struggling to get her moved to a specialist setting. She has no learning needs and generally with the one exception, she isnt violent so the SEMH schools are not appropriate either.

My other DC would never dream of acting out, is not a behavioural issue at all despite his needs.

Based on the unions DC is entirely due to my poor parenting. It doesnt matter that DC2 is a behavioural dream. It doesnt matter that I have no behavioural issues with DC1 at home where it is quiet, the same rigid routine for the past 6 years and less social demands. It doesnt matter that she is in a completely wrong setting.

In my LA there are over 400 children like my DC1 who have specialist agreed but are stuck in mainstream with no setting to go to. There is nowhere for them to go. These are the children with specialist agreed by the LA. This doesn't include the many hundreds more who don't have specialist agreed or don't even have EHCPs yet.

Our health trust is on 3+ years for an initial appointment. CAMHs are almost non-existent. You are only considered for medication if you are already a behavioural problem in school, it doesn't matter if a child has severe ADHD until they are at the point they can no longer cope and it is at crisis point.

Early help, if accepted, offers 6 weeks of support. There is a huge gap between early help and child in need.

I speak to parents day in day out at work who are desperate for help as their children can not cope at school.

There will always be poorly behaved children due to poor parents but the majority? The majority are children who simply cannot cope in the setting they are in with nowhere to go to.

Over 400 children in my LA with specialist agreed but stuck in mainstream. That is an incredible number.

I know my DC spends 8.45am-2pm in a small cupboard with a 1-1 TA. She joins a much younger year group for the last hour a day. She does 95% of her schoolwork with me at home.

OP posts:
SendBooksAndTea · 19/04/2025 18:59

Sorry, but I do believe that much of the blame lies with parents. I've often seen an unwillingness to accept a child may do wrong or may lie, which is really damaging. Not all parents of course.

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:00

CaptainMyCaptain · 19/04/2025 18:45

Do all the other children get sent out of the room or is it just your son's behaviour that is disrupting the class?

Quite a few DC in this class get send to reset regularly... mine isn't the only one.

As I said, there is a teacher problem...

MrsFaustus · 19/04/2025 19:02

Sinuhe ‘there’s a teacher problem’. Of course there is🫢

Frowningprovidence · 19/04/2025 19:10

JeremiahBullfrog · 19/04/2025 17:02

The diagnosis rate for things like ASD and ADHD is way higher than it used to be. Assuming the actual rates haven't changed significantly, a child with one of these conditions is much more likely to get support than 25 years ago, when - if we are to believe what we are told - behaviour in schools was much better. So I'm not sure how the state of SEN support is to blame.

It's not only about the state of sen support. It's the state of mainstream education. SEN children are like canaries in the mine. The mix of austerity for many years and parts of the curriculum (which is more intense for primary than it hsed to be) and it impact the more vulnerable students first.

Bunnycat101 · 19/04/2025 19:10

Sen funding (or lack there of) is going to be a massive part of it. In my daughter’s class there are three boys who need 1:1 support and none of them have an ECHP so there is no funding for the school. The school can’t afford 3 extra TAs so you have an untenable situation where the class has become crowd control rather than education and no-one is getting their needs met. You then have the kids who have dyslexia or other less obvious Sen that aren’t getting any support at all because their needs aren’t high enough. Add then in the bright kids who are under-occupied (so prone to chatting/finding their own entertainment) plus the kids that seem to have developed anxiety due to the classroom and it’s a bit of a recipe for a disaster. We’ve finally had enough and are moving to private…

deliciouschilli · 19/04/2025 19:12

99.9% of the time it's the parents. The next time your child pushes a teacher over they could hit their head and die.
Who do you think would be charged? This is the reality teachers are having to face every single day. Teachers have children and families too. Teachers have had enough.

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:14

MrsFaustus · 19/04/2025 19:02

Sinuhe ‘there’s a teacher problem’. Of course there is🫢

There is.

Why is there such poor retention in teaching? It goes far beyond poor behaviour in the classroom.

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:15

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 18:58

The cycle actually started long before that. And it's teachers who allowed it to continue.

I am not in the classroom, so I can't influence DC behaviour at that moment in time.

The teacher stopped it by sending your child out, you continued it by allowing your child's behaviour by undermining the teacher.

pinkfloralcurtains · 19/04/2025 19:18

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 18:53

Or me: I know that DC is challenging and likes to do xyz for attention.
I have spoken to teachers A & B and they both found putting DC in the front of class away from friends and other disruptive pupils, DC's behaviour is vastly improved. If front row isn't possible, still try and keep DC away from close friends in class.

Problem is, a small minority of teachers ignoring me (becauseIam justa parent) .... but are happy to email or phone me complaining about certain behaviours - none of which involve throwing stuff or hurting others. Most is annoying and petty.

I am not THAT parent- DC has boundaries and knows how to behave. I am happy to work with teachers in order to improve DC behaviour. But I still think disengaged teachers can be the cause of some poor behaviour. You can highlight poor behaviour to me and I will engage with you. But for my own experience it's ok for teachers to fire off an email but never engage with the parents thereafter.

Your kid doesn’t stand a chance, he’s being let down really badly by you. You need to reinforce that he’s there to learn and that includes following instructions and generally not being a nuisance in class.

It’s staggering that your threshold is “isn’t hurting others or throwing”. What is “petty”
to you could be hugely disruptive to the other 29 children trying to get along in class.

1AngelicFruitCake · 19/04/2025 19:20

We don’t know you or how you parent so can’t comment on the effect you’ve had on your child. I don’t think everything child related is on parenting alone but it clearly has a big impact and that includes bedtimes, screen time and general boundaries.

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

MrsFaustus · 19/04/2025 19:02

Sinuhe ‘there’s a teacher problem’. Of course there is🫢

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

WhereIsMyJumper · 19/04/2025 19:24

Superhansrantowindsor · 19/04/2025 16:41

I don’t think some parents realise what is normal. Most children behave well, are polite and do their work. There are a few kids in each class without SEN who are very naughty. They talk over the teacher, scribble in their book rather than do the work, back chat, turn up late, don’t have equipment and distract others. Parents of these kids seem to have the attitude of it’s just kids being kids.

I agree that normal has been skewed.
I have a friend who has a 7yo and he is so polite and well behaved, not a wall flower or shy but is respectful. She often takes him with her to meet friends for coffee and she gets the same comments on how good he is, sits and engages, doesn’t watch a screen and she always seems shocked by this. I’ve had to tell her a few times that his behaviour is exceptional compared to his peers but surely, most kids should be like this?!

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:27

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:15

The teacher stopped it by sending your child out, you continued it by allowing your child's behaviour by undermining the teacher.

The teacher also continues the behaviour because now DC has missed some of the lessons content ... so next time DC struggling to follow which results in poor behaviour... and being sent out again.... it's a cycle that definitely wasn't started by myself.

You also need to understand that the poor behaviour isn't across the bord it's not even subject related.

CherryBlossom321 · 19/04/2025 19:28

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

Agree. There’s a multi academy trust in our area and they are taking on whoever they can get. There are both teaching, and non teaching staff not able to communicate or connect effectively with students, with little to no experience, and in some cases a fairly limited skill set and lack of maturity. Friends in other areas to us are talking about the same problem.

WhereIsMyJumper · 19/04/2025 19:28

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 18:53

Or me: I know that DC is challenging and likes to do xyz for attention.
I have spoken to teachers A & B and they both found putting DC in the front of class away from friends and other disruptive pupils, DC's behaviour is vastly improved. If front row isn't possible, still try and keep DC away from close friends in class.

Problem is, a small minority of teachers ignoring me (becauseIam justa parent) .... but are happy to email or phone me complaining about certain behaviours - none of which involve throwing stuff or hurting others. Most is annoying and petty.

I am not THAT parent- DC has boundaries and knows how to behave. I am happy to work with teachers in order to improve DC behaviour. But I still think disengaged teachers can be the cause of some poor behaviour. You can highlight poor behaviour to me and I will engage with you. But for my own experience it's ok for teachers to fire off an email but never engage with the parents thereafter.

Why is your DC unable to behave himself properly if he sits by his friends? You’re advocating for a sticking plaster by trying to suggest the teacher managed the environment rather than your DC managing their behaviour

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 19/04/2025 19:28

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

I agree. I left 4 years ago.

But we were getting trainees through that couldn’t spell or use basic grammar. We used to have to go through their slide shows.

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:31

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:27

The teacher also continues the behaviour because now DC has missed some of the lessons content ... so next time DC struggling to follow which results in poor behaviour... and being sent out again.... it's a cycle that definitely wasn't started by myself.

You also need to understand that the poor behaviour isn't across the bord it's not even subject related.

He has missed the lessons due to his "challenging" behaviour.
It was started by you not ensuring that your DS understands that his behaviour is not suitable in a classroom.

You also need to understand that the poor behaviour isn't across the bord it's not even subject related.

Its when you DS decides that he wants to behave. It is your job to make sure that he understands that he needs to behave at all times.

Calmdownpeople · 19/04/2025 19:31

Peony1897 · 19/04/2025 13:16

I think we hit the sweet spot from 90s-2000s.

I think the loss of playing out and the rise of screens has been catastrophic for children’s MH.

Totally agree.

Ask any teacher and they will say it’s social media, screens, permissive parenting etc.

Of course children with SEN need additional help but this has always been true - there isn’t just magically SEN kids in 2025.

Entitled parents, over regulation, poor behaviour etc are causing our schools to miss function.

The absolute crap theta schools, heads and teachers have to put up with is shocking. Literally shocking.

There are endless posts on here abiut complaints to the school, to the head, governors and ofsted for ridiculously small things - my kid didn’t get their preferred locker, they aren’t sitting where they want, another kid pushed them and the school didn’t expel the other kid etc etc

Who would want to be an educator these days.

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:33

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

Thank you.

Unfortunately to the majority on this thread it's poor parenting not poor teaching or poor teacher training.

LlynTegid · 19/04/2025 19:35

Parents are a part of the issue though not 100%.

Remember children missed out on more in class education in 2020 than should have been the case. Reopening pubs and cheap fast food was seen as more important.

Then look at some of the people who have been education secretary in recent years.

Hercisback1 · 19/04/2025 19:38

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

The way out of this problem is definitely blaming teachers....

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:44

Hercisback1 · 19/04/2025 19:38

The way out of this problem is definitely blaming teachers....

I blame the teacher recruiting process. My daughter is now only 12 months in and already she is responsible for trainees.
It’s the blind leading the blind, she’s been tempted to set up weekly spelling tests for some.

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:46

CherryBlossom321 · 19/04/2025 19:28

Agree. There’s a multi academy trust in our area and they are taking on whoever they can get. There are both teaching, and non teaching staff not able to communicate or connect effectively with students, with little to no experience, and in some cases a fairly limited skill set and lack of maturity. Friends in other areas to us are talking about the same problem.

Absolutely agree with the level of maturity as well. I was lambasted for an issue surrounding punctuality. And when I took in copies of court orders that compel me to hand the children over 50% of the time to the X who lives two hours away and gets caught in traffic every single morning.
I was told to disobey the court orders by someone on reception 🤣

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:57

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:44

I blame the teacher recruiting process. My daughter is now only 12 months in and already she is responsible for trainees.
It’s the blind leading the blind, she’s been tempted to set up weekly spelling tests for some.

In what way is the recruitment process to blame?
Schools can only pick from what is in front of them.

There are many reasons why people don't want to be teachers, not of that is down to the recruitment process.
Pupil behaviour
Workload
Poor management
public perception
MSM
SM
Parents etc.

Hercisback1 · 19/04/2025 19:57

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:44

I blame the teacher recruiting process. My daughter is now only 12 months in and already she is responsible for trainees.
It’s the blind leading the blind, she’s been tempted to set up weekly spelling tests for some.

So how are you expecting things will get better? If the recruitment bar was higher, there would be even fewer teachers than there are now (still not enough). We can slag off students but that doesn't improve anything, nor does constant supply or collapsed classes.