The dilemma that won’t end

[kindnessforthewin]

different name and account as when app updated I couldn’t get into my old one, however, I’ve found the old thread here, it’s long but essentially with 2DCs under 2.5 I just cannot be the non stop support my DSis wants and she won’t get the message m: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5216124-the-guilt-is-crippling-me?utmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=appshare

by way of update, DSis finally found a flat after realising I wouldn’t bail her out and let her live with me again (I had a newborn and 2 year old), and decided her time was up and she had to rent.

she rented……. On my doorstep. And that of her ex bf. Today I took time out of my day whilst DCs were napping at 1pm to meet her, and she spent the entire lunch crying about how triggering Easter is because we don’t have a family, how she bumped into her ex bf yesterday and it’s left her in pieces and how lonely she is.

since I’ve been back from our family trip (back for 6 weeks) she’s invited herself round at least once a week and I’ve had to tell her ‘no’ all but 2 times. I cannot explain enough to her, I do not have capacity for someone to ‘pop in’ or send me ‘are you around this evening’ messages.

yes in around this evening, like every evening, but 7-10pm (if I’m lucky) is the only time of the day im not running around after a 6 month old and/or 2.5 year old, a dog and the household chores. DC1 is at nursery 3 days a week and DC2 + dog home full time.

I don’t fancy putting my kids to bed and having another child walk in at 7pm. She’s almost 30 but what she wants is company, support, someone to take her pain away… every single week. Probably more if I allowed it.

I have tried to explain this but all I get I ‘I need you to be my sister right now’. Worth mentioning I’ve had her round for an entire afternoon and evening one Sunday, she was great, after me giving her home truths at the end of last year she actually played with DCs and tried to bond with them and helped a lot around the kitchen. Albeit she was still sat on sofa as DH and me were walking up to bed…never wants to leave.

second time I told her how stressed I was, we all were recovering from what we think was Covid, went on 10+ days, DH had final round presentations for new job he was behind prepping on and impending house guests arriving that weekend (a couple and their 2 DCs aka full on). Yet she called me the day after they arrived to borrow something, came round to get it and when she dropped it off same day, said she would pop in anyway. Again she was great, cleaned the kitchen and was helpful but again didn’t want to leave despite the fact we had guests. Zero emotional intelligence that I had explained I was so stressed with it all and still invited herself round.

the other 4ish times I’ve told her no……

even today 30 min before we were due to meet for lunch she said she’d locked herself out of her flat and called to come round. DH eyes rolled to back of head as we’d been up with DCs since 5.45am and DC2 was up several times in night for dummy run and DH feeling under weather…. I’d told her all of this when she messaged first thing to ask what time worked and I said only 1pm when DCs sleep. So she knew the reality of our day. I called back and said no point coming, I need to put DCs to bed and get ready and she insisted on coming just so we could walk together. Given she lives on the high street, where we were meeting I told her to putter around there for 25 min and she refuted asking what was she supposed to do on the high street for that amount of time. Tbh that would be my heaven but the dilemma is we have ying and yang lives.

In the end I text her to say literally no one can let you in, I need to shower and DH is broken and using his one hour child free time to lay in bed to rest before being with DCs this afternoon. Then she cried all lunch that I wouldn’t let her come and I make her feel like a burden. Of course I can let her come and sit in my house while I get ready but then it doesn’t stop there does it.

its such a dilemma because she’s so lonely, seems to not think she’s needy but is the most needy person I know, it pushes everyone away, including me, thinks she has the worst life in the world and seems to not want to sit with her pain and wants to come here regularly for company. I am on the short list and nothing I do or say will stop her relentless asking to come round. I had to work through all my trauma and sort my life out. I’m 8 years older than her but no one saved me.

anyone with 2 DCs and a dog will understand I have nothing left to give. My head is always exploding with stimulation and a never ending to do list. I’ve told her all of this but she repeats ‘I need you’. I don’t want anyone else to need me….. I need her to figure it out and give me some space.

DH thinks it’s a real dilemma and I won’t ever get through to her so shouldn’t even try. I get so stressed with her daily calls. Even around kids bedtime when I’ve told her 5-7pm is non stop for me.

Given her flat was only short term and up in July I said what a good opp to go back onto spare room and move further from ex (not on the same high street) so that would be one trigger less, and she said she doesn’t want to move because likes being close to ME. Again I said I can’t be what you need and she burst into tears again.

what do I do? Nothing is landing. My reality isn’t going to change. DC2 about to crawl and I’m due back to work soon…

Given your last message OP. Seriously consider blocking her. She isn’t getting the message and she won’t get the message while you continue to pick up the phone.
She sounds selfish and controlling - this behaviour will affect your DC as they get older.

I am your family, you should prioritise me

to which my answer would be “you’re my sister and I love you but my priority is the children I have and are responsible for.”

How about saying to your sister "OK then - I am your family, YOU should prioritise ME. You have a sister who is broken from so many caring responsibilities. I've told you how you can best help me- it's by giving me space. If you won't do this I can only conclude you don't care about your family."

I mean that won't work, it's just a shot you could take!

The thing that will work OP, is you holding your own boundaries with love.

It sounds like you are still needing something from her - you need her to realise what you're going through, you need her to then act in a way that gives you space so you don't have to take it. But she won't do that, she can't. She doesn't have the skill to do it. But you are enmeshed in resenting her neediness.

So the reframe for you is that it's a gift - her inability to read the room is giving you the chance to learn about acting assertively without shame or blame. You can practise taking up the space that is rightfully yours and prioritising yourself and your needs. Your family hasnt given you that skill, you had to help everyone and be overly parentified. You've done so much work on yourself and this is the next stretch for you. She's helping you now, to stretch your own skills.

The Work by Byron Katie might be something you'd find useful. I think the Judge Your Neighbour worksheet will feel to you like a massive revelation.

Have you sold the family home yet? Once she has the money for a house deposit hopefully you'll never have to listen to her whine about her housing situation at least.

Beyond that, you need to internalize the idea that you don't actually need her to "take" no for an answer - you just need to say no, once, and then not do as she demands. You also need to remember that you are in charge of what you do and she, and she alone, is responsible for what she does, or doesn't - like making the effort to make friends etc. There's no relationship between the two things, so stop acting like there is. If she won't make any effort to help herself, that's her choice - don't make it yours, and don't let her choices influence yours in any way. You seem very stuck on the idea that you need to "get through" to her, make her accept what you're saying, see where she's going wrong etc. I don't think it's going to happen, so all you can do is decide what you will do and what you won't, and do it. What she accepts, learns, changes etc is her concern, not yours. I know it makes you feel like you're cruel or something, but there's no other way.

My reply would be, I deeply love and care for you because you are my sister, BUT I AM NOT A QUALIFIED THERAPIST.

You are seriously affecting my mental health, and I would ask you to seek the professional help you desperately need. Any communication from you will not be reciprocated until you have recovered from the desperate cycle you are in.

Just here for ‘never wrestle a pig’. I think that says it all. So sorry you are experiencing this but she sounds unwell.

I get that she is being needy but could it be because she never actually gets what she needs from you?

You keep saying you have children and a dog and can't spend an evening with her, but are having house guests for the weekend.

One evening where your DH could take caeof the kids could make a real difference to her.

You keep saying she need to read the relationships book.

Clearly that book doesn’t work in this situation - you need to find another tool in your armory to deal with her.

I think Lightening Strike has the best response simple and to the point. She doesn’t care what you think or feel OP, she’s far too absorbed in her own world of self pity. You’ve got to walk away.

She sounds like she can’t cope at all with her own company. She really does need therapy as she can’t escape herself

I think you need to lay down very hard boundaries that say you will only continue to see her if she gets herself referred for therapy, and even then you will only see her once a week between defined times. The rest of the time you won't be answering the phone or the door to her. You have to go in for some tough love for her own sake, she is never going to get out of this cycle while she feels she can come running to you all the time.

I could have written your posts @kindnessforthewin but replacing sister with mother. Mine was exhausting and never ever read the room! I ended up going very low contact, grey rocking and so on. She expects you to parent her. I really feel for you. Have you looked at whether she fits a narcissistic pattern? You might find that treating her as though she is helps.
You've got enough going on. Keep the boundaries you've set and limit the time you spend with her. I would meet at the park or a coffee shop. She might be less emotional if your children are there or it's in public? I'm not sure, and I don't think it fair to your wee ones to have an overwrought aunty crying everywhere.

I definitely wouldn't be seeing her in the evenings. You've probably got enough going on and you need to wind down and get sleep etc. Be selfish and put your own wellbeing first or you'll be neither used nor ornament to your own family.

Hi Op - I'm going to go a little against the grain here. I absolutely understand your point of view here - she sounds hard work. BUT - I also felt a huge amount of sadness for her reading your posts.

I wonder if the trauma and sadness in your own past is being focused on her - and some of this is causing a real cycle of anxiety/ rejection between you?

You seem furiously angry with her for 'needing' you - you are so absolutely focused on her reading books and learning to cut off emotion/ not show weakness/ zone in on her own failings and be tougher - it's a real emotional bootcamp you want to put her through.

I understand this - Im quite intolerant of weakness in others myself and I understand your arguments about self improvement - it definitely does sound like she would benefit from more self knowledge - therapy would be good

BUt - you are also - being honest rejecting her again and again and it sounds liek that is part of her cycle. SHe is anxious, seeks connection and love - and is rejected

The pattern she has in relationships is also happening with you - that must be very painful for her at this point - and you seem absolutely intolerant of her need to be part of a loving family

At one point you say - go and find australians to spend your weekends with - I mean wow, I took a breath reading that! this is your sister - who wants to be with her sibling/ neices nephews at a weekend as she recorers from some trauma

and you are saying 'go. find some australians you have no connection to to be with'

it's pretty harsh op! You just seem so absolutely angry about it - not letting her in to wait with you etc I'm noit judging you as I absolutely see the cycle of how she then cries and it's stressful

I wonder if you took a more compassionate approach of stopping lecturing her, just letting her be, listening - she might actually relax and 'need' you less in the long term??
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Perhaps let go of the lecturers, the telling her off for not reading 'the rules' - etc - and stop trying to fix her?

You mention several times 'nobody saved me' - but that's sad isn't it?

It's not the ideal - the ideal is we have family who do care for us and we don't need to get all our emotional input from books like 'the rules'

It's not her fault nobody saved you - I would just be careful you aren't letting the anger at that spill over at her - when if you stopped trying to make her 'tougher' and less needy she might actually be more relaxed around you.

I went through an extended personal crisis some years ago when family and friends weren't available to listen to my daily woes. I eventually tried the free phone counselling services and they were pretty good, certainly much better than nothing.

It was a relief to know I didn't have to bother the family any more. Perhaps you could suggest that when she's needing to discuss her problems, she could give them a try.

You sound so lovely op and I hope things work out for you. A bit random I know but could you encourage her to join a singing group? There are loads of community choirs out there and it's a great way to make friends. Good luck to you both x

The thing is, no matter how much time and attention you give her, it will never be enough.

Even if she moved into your house (I'm not recommending this!) she would complain that you spend too much time looking after your children and not enough time with her.

If you're not careful she is going to make you ill, wreck your marriage, or both.

You can't fix her, concentrate on your husband, children, and your own wellbeing.

OP and her sister had completely different childhoods. This was OP's:

This forced me to grow up very fast. My mum’s chaos (breaking windows, screaming fits) made me hypervigilant and deeply intuitive. I became incredibly resourceful to survive, and made myself as small as possible at home. I even used to dig through waste paper bins for used tights at school because I was reliant on the corner shop having them and if they didn’t, I didn’t complain (had no one to complain to), I adapted. These survival skills shaped me.
Luckily the court believed that my Mum had paid for work on the house with money left my her Dad and they took pity on 4 children, my mums poor mental health and let us keep the house. This was some 3 years later after it had totally failed apart.

This was her sister's:

By the time my sister was school-age, things had changed. Dad had rebuilt some wealth and most of the house was renovated (lucky her having her school friends over; I could never invite anyone back to the health hazard house that was our falling to pieces house). I think out of guilt and excitement to have his wealth back, Dad spoiled her. She flew first class with him abroad, he even paid for her friends to fly with her, got designer bags and shoes, and even had a credit card. I had no idea this was happening while I was away at uni.

The catalyst for OP's sister's descent into self-pity is the break up of a relationship, a fairly common occurrence for people in their early twenties. Her sister sounds narcissistic and solipsistic and she expects OP to prioritise her over her own small children. OP has been supportive of her sister for years, but her sister refuses to move on and her behaviour is escalating. It sounds as though she is used to being pandered to and indulged. She needs therapy from a professional, not to be treated like one of OP's children.

Agree with most others - you can't fix her and there's no point trying.
I'd go low and very controlled contact.
Something like one weekend day every month. You can frame it as 'until I've recovered as I'm mentally spent' if that's more palatable.
And minimal engagement with messages.

Jeez op for decades I have longed for a dsis..
Absolutely glad I am an only dc..
Seriously you are a fucking saint.. Have you tried your dh answering the door /your phone? Would she accept you simply aren't available right then from him? If she held your df in high regard would she therefore listen to a man?

Had never considered having a sibling could have such a negative effect on someone's life... So yes off 1 thread... Do i get a badge? Quite offensive..

I agree with this.
On paper itsounds harsh but she (selfishly) isn't giving you a choice.

I have a 21 m gap oldest is 3 and a bit.
We also have an (annoying) dog who loves me best. I had a friend like this pre children it was sooooo claustrophobic
dealing with that in sister format after my second would have driven me to the brink.

You have to put your own oxygen mask on first.

I didn't read the original post you linked but she comes off very strongly as someone who has been abandoned in childhood and is casting around for someone to make her feel secure. I think paradoxically if you made her feel safe and like she could always rely on you, she would appear less needy. Frankly I felt really sorry for her reading your posts on this thread - I'm not saying it's your job to fix her, or anyone's other than hers, but she sounds like she's really struggling.

I disagree, based on my own experiences.

The 3 people i know like this are just black holes / emotional vampires. The world is not enough. Even when they get their fix that's all it is... a short term solve. They are voids that cannot be filled