To have handed the new owners the no more HMO letter from the council regarding the street.

[itsmeits]

Thats it basically, new owners of down the road have been at the property this morning with the builder.
They politely introduced themselves, I welcomed them to the street and said look forward to seeing them around.

The Man then told me we won't see them as the house will be a HMO.
I asked do you not know there is an order no more HMOs on the street - did the estate agent not tell you, it's a protected area due to the amount of HMOs in the area. The 10% rule.

They both looked flabbergasted and informed me it would be a HMO.
Said I would be back in a minute, toddled back to mine printed the email (took out personal info) and handed them the information.
Pissed was not the word. I have been told I am lying and made this up. Advised they speak to councilort confirm the information.

YABU - leave them to - even though there is an order saying no more on the street.
YANBU - this information should be on the house listing when selling so potential buyers know.

Pissed off* not pissed.

Depending on the size of the HMO, it might not even need PP. One refusal of PP at a different site does not mean nothing else will get PP if it needs it.

I wonder if they didn’t tell anyone pre purchase that they were planning on the HMO. I suspect that an offer under asking price from Mr and Mrs Lovely with the baby on the way will be greeted far more positively than the same offer from people who are trying to make as much cash as possible from the house.

I would tell the council about this just in case they do decide to try to get away with it rather than put it back on the market.

I don't see why it should have to be mentioned on the house listing though, you'd surely have to then list of loads of things it can't be - it can't be an HMO, it can't be a shop, it can't be a business premises etc.
It's on the buyer to research whether the use of the property they are planning is permitted or not. Oh, that looks like a good property for an HMO and there are other HMOs on the street, we'd better check whether we are legally allowed to do that and if it's a protected area.

I know nothing whatsoever about HMOs but a 2 minute google of "Can I turn any property into an HMO" came up with a load of information about article 4 and then I was able to easily find a map of the area I used to live in the UK and could see which areas are article 4 areas.

I have little sympathy for the new owners. They should have done proper research first.

Some other arsey pedant beat you to it. Shame.

If the builder comes back then I’d inform the council, and watch out for adverts offering rooms as an HMO.
In our development it’s written in the title deeds that none of the houses can be HMO’s. That didn’t stop someone from a town next to us buying one of the bigger house that had been extended when a university was built up the road from us and trying to have that as an HMO. (6 rooms)
Neighbours contacted the council and the application was refused so he had to let it as one family dwelling.
He tried again a few years later but lodged the HMO licence with a neighbouring council to get round it then advertised it online.
Again neighbours realised and contacted our council who stopped the licence. Our residents association at one point took him to court as he wanted the deeds changed to allow HMO but again he lost.

They will just rent it to 4 persons instead of 5+.

Surely the obvious thing is to contact the council - though you'd better hope the developer isn't connected to someone there or just plain generous with the backhanders

I'm also surprised they weren't told about this as a result of the searches, butt maybe they knew and just didn't care

I saw; it was still worth making the point.

Edited to add - being a SPAG pedant isn't an insult.

We have restrictions... shoddy landlords moving to Airbnb instead. Bane of my life! No regulation of that unless you're in Scotland.

Searches only tell you more than the basics if you ask the right questions though.

If there is an Article 4 Direction relating to HMOs, that would have shown. Article 4 directions basically remove some form of permitted development so they can exist in lots of different forms.

Planning applications down the street won't show up unless you ask for a wider search area.

They’d of needed to apply for HMO at some point. Personally I think it’s probably better they find out now before spend lots converting it.

They, or their solicitor, really should of done their research.

Common sense 1, Greedy slumlords 0.

I have similar where I live. We are all very active in reporting to our local council relevant departments whenever we see a CF trying to sneak in either HMO or other forms of rentals that go against the council policy.

Councils are useless at policing this so it will be up to you and your neighbours to make sure the council are informed.

You're right about not being allowed to effectively sandwich a property between two HMOs.

I expect the new owner was hoping to get the property converted and rented out before anyone could raise an objection.

Report, report, report again to multiple departments.

I don’t get the hatred for HMOs on here. Maybe it’s just because this is Mumsnet and there’s a general “families good, young people bad” attitude.

I spent four years living in HMOs. It was fine and I’m glad they were there. In fact they were some of the happiest years of my life. When you’re just starting your career in a big city you often can’t afford a flat of your own, or even half the rent on a two bed, so the choice is HMO or nothing. We were much better neighbours than the family next door to me now with a noisy three year old and a noisy dog.

For those of you with older children who might move to a big city one day to start their careers: where do you expect them to live, if not an HMO?

I agree. The hospital near me would soon run out of resident doctors if HMOs were banned. They often have to move every 6/12 months (another issue altogether) and dont see the point / can't afford to rent a whole flat. There's a whole industry converting terraced Victorian and 70's terraces into high spec double bedroom en-suite units on 6 month tenancies. An extension of halls of residence, but with more luxury / comfort. Serviced as well - cleaners and gardining included. If they'd existed when I started my career I would have been delighted :)

Please could I ask how you got your council to issue the letter? Was it in response to resident complaints?

We have about 6 HMOs on our street and it seems that every house sold is turned into one these days :(

I don’t get the hatred for HMOs on here

Because a lot of them bring anti social behaviour. I lived next door to a student house once. Constant noise, parties etc. Rubbish thrown in my garden. They even threw an old mattress in there! Which I threw straight back.

Now I live somewhere where an HMO backs onto my house, young professionals. Ok, no rubbish issues. but again, constant loud parties every time there's a whiff of sun, till 4 or 5 in the morning. They all spill out to the garden and the noise is unbearable. I had to move bedrooms because I was getting to the point where I was seriously going to lose it with them. Polite requests had got me nowhere.

There's a very old couple in the house next door to me. It's a very large house. (Mine is split into two flats). I'm dreading that it might become an HMO in future. I'd have to consider moving if it did. The transient nature of them means that even if there's a batch of good tenants, a year or two later, that could all change. It's that uncertainty that makes it difficult. My other (good) neighbours have all been here 10 years+. We have naturally learnt to live side by side peacefully because none of us want conflict. You don't get that with an HMO, people are there for a relatively short time and just don't care.

It’s possible they didn’t take out a local search. It’s possible to just buy indemnity insurance to satisfy your lender instead of a local search. Or it’s possible they paid cash and decided against the search.

I think there are different types of HMOs. The 6+ ones on my street are not rented to professionals, all rented to the council and seem to have a lot of drug users, mental health issues etc. it worries me with a young family. Lots of police, ambulances, screaming etc.

I lived in council HMOs as a teenager with my mum and brother so I’m not being snobby. But agree that there should be quotas so as not to totally overwhelm an area.

They potentially didn’t do any searches. You don’t HAVE to. It’s stupid not to, especially if you want to make changes like they do.

I think if you live near multiple HMOs then the impacts on you are higher. Noise, parking and rubbish are the main ones. I used to work for the council and HMO’s would have a much higher incidence of issues. Bin bags hiding under recycling. Recycling bins being full of general waste. Bins being overfilled so lids couldn’t close. I’ve threatened to remove bins from an HMO a number of times. Then charged to empty the lot of them so they get a fresh start, and followed up.

This should have been brought up in the searches and if the council haven’t made it clear that an HMO is a no then the council might have stuffed up

The house I am in at the moment, when the searches were done it came back that a tube station was going to be built nearby

The Tube station that had been up and running for years.

Last house I had, the council read the map wrong and said that the houses on the road road were going to lose several feet of front garden when the road was widened

Services such as gas, electric, BT ran under the edge of the front gardens, right beside the road
The colour to indicate services on the map was confused with the colour that indicated road widening would be taking place

Councils make mistakes and if this wasn’t added to their searches then it could be argued that the council are at fault and compensation needed to be paid. Which would mean higher council tax to pay for it (are you in Northamptonshire by any chance)(or Croydon)

I have lived in and next to HMO’s. They are absolutely necessary but a street shouldn’t be overwhelmed by them.

When I lived in tenements where most were student HMO’s, the kids were polite but the parties were loud and the landlords did the absolute bare minimum maintenance and deep cleaning, so we often had issues with mice, chasing absent or overseas landlords for their share of roof repairs, sorting damage after leaks etc.

Same with HMO’s let to council tenants, we had a lot of issues with antisocial behaviour, things being damaged and stolen from
communal areas, drug taking in the communal garden. People need to be housed. But being completely boxed in & overwhelmed by HMO’s isn’t fair, especially if you haven’t bought in a stereotypical student street next to a uni etc.

Or he's one of the leech landlords who won't care about planning restrictions and do it anyway, sneekily and fraudulently. Not everyone complies with laws and restrictions and councils are very haphazard about who they issue enforcement against. After all, huge numbers of illegal workers are "housed" in places that are definitely illegal, but no one seems to care about them until something bad happens like a fire that kills someone.