To think people who say “money doesn’t buy happiness” have never had real money?

[EdgyRobin]

Poor people romanticising struggle is weird.

In your examples yes due to poverty and i did say where poverty is in play then yes money will help with happiness naturally. Im talking about in instances where people are comfortable or rich

Time: If your working away but earning 6 figures - theres lack of time for family/hobbies, you cant outsource working away.

If your addicted to making more money so a workaholic then as previous, and most earning these types of money are addicted to work to keep it rolling in and need to be in control.

I have a million in the bank but have never seen my child play their sport or took them to school or watched their play as i’m never there. That type of thing.

Health- yes maybe not affected by the likes of chronic poor health disease, but cancer etc doesn’t discriminate.

Family and friends- some of the most deprived areas have the strongest relationships for helping each other out, clothing, food, borrowing a tea bag, giving there last £5 to someone else who needs gas/electric. So no money doesn’t always equate to generousity or kindness.

I disagree that money can’t buy time. Surely it can if it enables you to work less or not at all?

I guess it depends if your inheritently rich where life ticks over and the money keeps coming in or working to have that level of wealth.

if your working aboard 2/3rds of the year to earn 6 figures you can’t outsource can you, you physically need to be there. Having a million in the bank but being away x amount of months or weeks at a time doesn’t buy you time to watch your kids grow up, watch them play sport, watch their first navity that sort of thing.

While lack of money will make you less happy, the fact is that it is possible (and common) to be extremely wealthy and very unhappy.

Some of the wealthiest families I know (think private jet levels of wealth) are also some the most dysfunctional and miserable.

I'm sure they would be even more miserable if they had the same family relations and no money, but money certainly doesn't make them happy.

The people I hear saying this, or similar, are usually in a decent financial position (not necessarily wealthy but "comfortable"). I never hear people who are truly struggling claim this.

I think happiness is about freedom to do the things that bring you joy, strong interpersonal relationships and a sense of purpose. It's about the security of knowing that you can navigate and survive misfortune and that you have choices and options to make change to increase your happiness if necessary. There's not a single thing on that list that isn't more achievable if you have money, so absolutely it can bring you happiness. If you are happy in poverty, then that's generally because you by sheer good fortune are content with the limited options open to you, so despite not having money, certainly not because of it. I do believe that poverty can build some positive character traits, resilience, resourcefulness, appreciation of non material things, but that is in no way said in support of it. Its disgraceful and shameful that some people live in poverty while others enjoy such excess.

a platitude to stop the peasants rebelling?

Of course YANBU.

As someone that has been bankrupt and also now in a financially stable position, it makes me laugh when people who've never been in poverty say that. It's just utterly disingenuous. Of course you can't literally hand over money somewhere to purchase an emotion. But money buys sleep free from worry about finances, a comfy bed, options, time and energy to see loved ones, it buys more than a week off work on bereavement leave when you lose your spouse suddenly, it buys experiences that bring job, hobbies that bring a sense of achievement, social occasions with people.

I think most people don’t understand what happiness is. They view it as just ‘relief’ from their current problems.

Is it just about material possessions? If we had more money we could have the thermostat above 17.5 degrees (which it's only at for about 5 hours a day, the rest of the time it's at 12), being warmer in the winter would definitely make me happier.

First thing I'd spend a sudden substantial windfall on though is a counsellor for DS - he's on a waiting list but who knows how long that will take, and the GP won't do a CAMHS referral as it will be refused, so I have a depressed child who wants to die and is threatening to harm himself and there is fuck all early intervention or preventative help out there unless you can pay for it.

On a more material level would be making the house nicer and replacing things that are worn out - our double glazing is knackered for example. The bathroom suite is over 60 years old, the kitchen must be 40, they're hard to keep clean, damaged, some bits are falling apart and they depress me.

The only people who say it doesn't are people who have never had real money, like wealth or people who do who don't want others to know how great it is. It affords freedom and unlimited opportunities ..
Its fantastic, it doesn't inoculate you from everything, death, heartbreak, illness but poor people have to deal with those things too and money makes it infinitively easier

I think money gives you choices, and that makes us happier.

Poverty brings its own level of misery.

Anyone that believes that statement has never been poor.

IME, the people most likely to say this are those who don't know what it's like to live without financial privilege - both ready cash in the bank and assets. They haven't seen the life chances of children and adults undermined by the lack of money to meet basic needs. They've never had to choose between food and heating in the middle of winter, while living in a house without heating with a child who has bronchitis. They don't have a clue about having a child with SEN and no resources to get them the help they need.

Beyond a certain point, more money on top of an already great pile of it doesn't make you happier, healthier or more fulfilled. It makes you Smaug the dragon. But the vast majority of the world's affluent would have to be vastly wealthier than they are before they could go to sleep on piles of gold - or finance space tourism.

Which would make me really really really happy.

I don't take it that way at all.

I have family with serious money on both sides. On one, live in a stately home, have a helicopter money, and on the other side have a title, land and trust fund money.

Yes, this means a life without struggle BUT it doesn't mean a life that guarantees things that are crucial to a happiness - eg health, fertility, a happy relationship, good friends and family around you etc.

They've both had their fair share of illness, mental health struggles, scandals etc.

Money absolutely buys them incredible homes, cars and holidays, but the things that 'warm your heart' are just as tricky for them.

I found the opposite. My very rich boss often says "money doesn't buy happiness" but I'd happily be sad on holiday 4 times a year and without the worry of whether I can afford a food shop this week than sad at home and with all those worries

Agree with this.

Honestly? You might be onto something. “Money doesn’t buy happiness” does sometimes feel like one of those comforting little mantras passed down to keep everyone in line - like if you just focus on gratitude and inner peace, you won’t notice how much harder life is without options, support, or safety nets. Meanwhile, people with money are out here buying comfort, time, therapy and insulation from everyday stress - all of which make a huge difference to wellbeing.

to Have financial freedom is a huge thing

Money can't buy you the happiness that comes from intrinsically happy in yourself (people will be depressed, sick, have terrible things happen to them, some people are just grumpy/never content).
But for poor people you live life under a constant cloud of anxiety and stress. The worry is unbearable. Sure you have happy times, but the constant whirring of your mind trying to decide what bill you can hold off longest, how to manage food, how you can't afford to be sick, dentist, children's needs and what to prioritise, is there always. Happy events such as a wedding, birthday, night out can be hugely stressful. You're scrabbling to survive.
Remove that and the potential to have a happier life is huge.

there’s probably a tipping point
There is a tipping point. Research demonstrates that wellbeing only increases to a certain point, basically when someone is financially independent and not in financial stress or poverty.

Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton find that money can buy happiness, but only up to a point. This well-known study found that emotional wellbeing rises logarithmically with income. In layman’s terms, this means that as income increases, wellbeing increases too – but at a slower and slower rate. Khaneman and Deaton’s data also suggested that once income surpasses about $75,000 per year, wellbeing stops increasing altogether. However, more recent research has shown that the log-linear relationship persists well beyond 75K for most people — though there is likely a flattening effect around 100K for the least happy people

https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/blog/can-money-buy-happiness

Rich people still kill themselves.

Of course, a base level of security helps improve life immeasurably - decent housing, food on the table, predictable income etc. But it doesn't protect you from emotions - grief, regret, anxiety, depression, health worries, difficulties with family members etc. We all face the same issues after a certain point.

A lot of happiness comes from how you choose to live each day as well. I don't earn much (a little over 20k per year) but I am happy because I exercise regularly, I do gardening, I see my friends, I speak to family daily, I get out in the sunshine every day where I can, and I have things booked in my diary that I look forward to (none of which cost much money).

I have some friends who are wealthy who must feel pretty rough on a day to day basis based on how much alcohol forms part of their routine. I share a PT with one of them and he consistently skips his sessions. He works very long hours in a stressful job. He may have much more money than me but I'd choose my life over their's any day.

Yeah, totally. Thank you.

Money doesn’t make you happy per se. But it can be used to provide things that make you happy. And it gives you options which you don’t have if you have less money.

I’ve always thought it was a stupid saying.

Obviously it’s trying to say that non-material things are the key to happiness. And this is partially true. But even a wonderful life full of joy and love and satisfaction is made better with financial security.

He obviously doesn’t want those things as much as the millions in the bank or they don’t bring him as much happiness. Plenty of men (and some women) use money as an excuse to simply check out of family life.