To think you can’t take the moral high ground on private schools if….

[Loudcloud]

….. you moved to a particular area for good schools, and paid a premium on the property price to do so?

Surely both are using your finances to get your kid a better education?

This misunderstands the issues some parents face. A museum might well be free, but what if you can’t afford to get there? Or don’t have the time because you are working 2 jobs to pay the bills. Libraries are great but all our local ones are open only during opening hours and a couple of hours at the weekend. My closest one takes 2 buses to get there. Getting your kids to school on time isn’t always easy for all parents.

Exactly, it's all the same - using one's resources to buy access to an education that someone else might not be able to afford.

My kids school isn't known to be one of the best, I have no idea where it ranks but it certainly isn't near the top. I've happily sent my kids there, you do realise every single person in the country can't possibly send their kids to the best schools? That's not how it works

I sometimes wonder what private school parents think goes on in state schools… a friend of mine was waxing lyrical on how wonderful it was that her DD studied Shakespeare in Y8 at her private girls’ school, not realising that it’s pretty much the norm these days in every school! My state school educated DC have been on many trips and visits, participated in sports, DofE, a whole load of extra curricular experiences. This is a very average small town comprehensive.

As someone said, at the end of the day they all do the same GCSEs and the teachers receive the same training. Most good teachers I know wouldn’t touch private schools with a barge pole.

I was being a bit facetious to be honest because I suppose to take the "moral high ground" you'd have to be in my position right?

In answer to your questions I have never considered private schools, mostly because there isn't any close to where I live, but also it would be so far removed from anything we've ever known.

There's a lot of schools between crap and excellent but I imagine you would think my kids school is crap, but my children certainly aren't "suffering" and you are ridiculous to think that all kids are somehow suffering a terrible fate if they don't go to a top school.

Or a private tutor for the 11 plus. TBH I think that has become private through the back door as your average kid from a council estate has to go up against those coached in the exam for multiple years. It's not a level playing field.

I'm in a rural part of Scotland so my kids will go to the nearest school - because that's 11 miles away and there's no other choice so technically I can claim moral high ground.

But I also chose to move here and recognise it's very different to sending your child to school in London so I don't judge the other choices people make as we all try to do the best we can within our means and circumstances.

There's a private school down the road in the most beautiful setting and if money was no object I'd definitely want my child to have the opportunity to go there.

You’re kidding yourself about what equality looks like if you think we all have an equal opportunity when it comes to libraries, museums, reading etc. my nearest library is only open during working hours. There is one museum in this town, and poor public transport connections mean you would need a car and the extra petrol to not be an issue to deepen a child’s understanding of local history. Reading isn’t free if you’re living hand to mouth and you can’t get to the library during opening hours. Granted, we should all be getting our children to school on time but there are barriers including ill health and the requirement that a child is a carer - they’re not leaving home until they’ve done what needs to be done.

In fact, your examples are examples of relative privilege, even if school fees can’t be found. It’s just convenient to ignore that because you perceive your child to be at a disadvantage if not receiving ‘the best’. I can’t imagine for one minute you give much of a thought to the kids who don’t visit museums….and I bet you would shrug your shoulders and congratulate yourself on your superior parenting if anyone pointed out these advantages you’ve been able to give your own children.

And yet (in answer to the op) there are many beautiful leafy areas where parents choose both: they have paid for the nice house and area and for private schools. It’s no accident that private schools proliferate in wealthy areas with nice houses. In my area? Nope? People just send to the local school. This is the reality of most parents.

This is what I hate about the private schools VAT. It's not making real profit and it's just causing MORE of a stress on the state system. Better off parents will spend their money on higher-priced houses near good state schools, meaning poor families now have NO access to quality education.

1. Studying Shakespeare in a private vs State School is very different. In many state schools they'll read a single Shakespeare text, watch movies, maybe go to the theatre, study the basics needed for exams. The focus in good private schools will be on setting up performances, the historical context and themes, and explore common storylines / themes across multiple Shakespeare texts. Eg my nephew studied three Shakespearen texts and set up a performance in Year 7. In Year 8 they work with the RSC.

1. School trips are different too. My neice (year 9) private school has educational, cultural, 'fun' and sports trips. They must do at least one trip of each type. One of their educational trips involved researching, patenting and designing medical aparatus with a medical engineering company in the States. Her entire class went to Nepal to teach English. Fun trips examples include 'theatre weekends' in NYC or London where they'll go to see a big west end play and talk to the actors afterwards & fashion weeks where they work with fashion houses to set up a show. It is a different world.

This is what many people think private school is like.
And why the general public is not bothered about VAT.

Parents must have endless money to finance this lifestyle.

Not typical, I would say.

Even if we’d had the money I don’t think the private schools would have wanted us or our kids. I agree that private education buys the whole package, possibly for life, but we are south London cockneys. You have to consider how your child would feel to be mixing with the super wealthy

Not all schools are full of super wealthy
London might be different but up here in Yorkshire local accents etc are not a reason to be concerned about Private Schools.
At my DC's school if there is room and you can afford it you are welcome.

I would agree and things like that are the reason many people think Private schools are so elitist

That’s good to hear. Yes, I suppose I’m London-centric. I had a tiny insight into those lives as my son was seeing a girl from a wealthy background. Sent away to boarding school. Private school. The family were mean buggers with money and the mother expected certain standards. The gf was nice but walked on eggshells with the weight of expectation on her. It’s jaded my opinion of the private school system. Then again, not all families are like hers I guess

Posh boarding school is not really representitive of Private schools in general, its a shame you only have experience of someone from the former.
Bragging and labels are not really accepted at my DC's school, in fact I have seen fancier coats at the Comp nearby but each private school is different and attracts a different type I suppose.

No they don’t strip the best state schools of the best musical/sorting talent as state schools will never ever invest in it. The government. Is never going to throw tonnes of money at anything not academic. If private schools ceded to exist, we would have very few future Olympians/ rugby players etc. private schools throw a lot of the fees at the arts and sports but parents would never be allowed to subsidise a state school to pay for it. So essentially everyone misses out. I can’t imagine many state schools can afford a rowing house and boats and lessons in school time like private schools can so no one would get to do it for instance. Most state schools don’t even do Saturday sport like every private schools does. Do you think the government would ever pay for that, even under pressure from parents?

I send my kids private but we certainly aren’t super wealthy. Most of my children’s friends have pretty average lives. Plenty of teachers/accountants/ middle managers as parents. 99% of private schools are not eton. Certainly at my children’s schools they took a huge proportion of children who went to state primaries where they were all very integrated with the children around them. Certainly no evident wealth divide that would separate the children’s attitudes to each other . Remember many people who send their children private only have 1 child. It costs less over a childhood to send one child private vs another person who has 2 children and sends them to state school.

There are hundreds of independent schools in the UK. They're not all the same. Most parents don't want to send their children away to boarding schools even if they could afford it (which most couldn't, they're far more expensive than day schools), so they tend to be very different indeed.

I’m a free school meals, comprehensive educated girl from the North. My DH is an estuary accented comprehensive educated boy from London. The Home Counties private school that our DC attends couldn’t be friendlier or more welcoming. We have a real problem with reverse snobbery in this country. Please don’t judge someone by their background, whether they be richer or poorer than you.

I‘m a good teacher and my children go to private school because I saw first-hand how terribly stretched our average comp was. The final straw was when in the months leading up to the exams I was asked to cover A-level lessons in a subject I didn’t even have a GCSE in myself, just because we didn’t have anyone else. Everyone was so depressed and demoralised, it wasn’t the teachers fault or the kids, we were just constantly battling with lack of time and resources. Moving mine to a private school has been absolutely life-changing for them.

This post has no logic - you are against taxing private schools but want people who own properties to be taxed. This makes no sense.

Im the other way around. I couldn't be loaned enough for a mortgage in a good catchment but could afford fees with certain discounts applied. Either way, it's using wealth to "buy" advantage but judging by the vitriol on some of the PS threads, that will simply never be accepted.

what is a good school? Has anyone bothered to think about that? To most people a good school is one where the other kids aren’t poor. That’s all it is, whether the teaching is good or they have good values or even decent buildings mean very little. “Good” just means your kids attends school w other well-off kids. Stop pretending it’s anything else.