To be fed up of being on a good income but always skint?

[Justonemorecurlywurly]

I know I’m going to get flamed, lots of “boo-hoo, poor you”, and that there are people far worse off but -

Our household income (family of 4) is roughly £110-120k. DH earns about £100k of that, I’m self employed and part time so my income fluctuates. I think that’s pretty good money but it feels like we can never afford to do anything.

No holiday for 2 years.
1 car
Very few clothes
Modest house

If after paying bills, we ever buy something non-essential like a meal out, or maybe one or two items of new clothes, birthday present, that’s it, we’re out of money for the month. And we have no savings. It’s ridiculous!

We did try to move a few years back but couldn’t afford it so remortgaged instead to extend the house a little. We got the best deal we could and borrowed only as much as we were comfortable with (even though it meant we couldn’t do as much work as we needed). But unfortunately we made a mistake fixing the new mortgage for only two years and when that time was up, rates had shot to which has made our repayments considerably more expensive which really hasn’t helped.

I’m so fed up of it. I honestly feel like we felt so much better off about 10 years ago when we were earning A LOT less.

Does anyone else feel like this? Is it just that everything is so expensive now??

I know some people will say I should work full time but for reasons I won’t go into, I need to be available for my DC so me being p/t works much better for the whole family.

Yes but over double the minimum wage is still an incredibly high income, it's in the top 10% at least?!

@FiveWhatByFiveWhat can you link
to what says this?

Even so surely that’s a good amount under 2k a month? Ours is only slightly lower and our payment is 1900 due to needing to stay on the variable rate because we’re selling.

I definitely understand that even 100k in the south doesn’t stretch as far as some people think but it sounds like your bills are actually relatively affordable for the income so you shouldn’t struggle to afford some luxuries.

@MikeRafone but there is no nuance to that? Not everyone is on PAYE for a start

https://ifs.org.uk/toolsanddresources/wheredooyoufitt_in#tool-results-section

The above is a much more accurate calculator because it's post tax.

and wait till you include housing costs.

Nonsense 😂

I doubt you would even get that repayment on an interest only mortgage, and in that case you would be stupid to be bragging about how low your mortgage is when you aren’t actually paying it off.

@Justonemorecurlywurly we’re very similar. Combined income of about £110k I think. Good news is we still qualify for free hours with childcare as me and dh earn similar but even with that, it’s difficult. Like you our mortgage is around 2k a month but we love our house and it’s in an area we love and have family so that’s an expense I see as worthwhile. The killer is the water bill and council tax!!

Except they're not getting £96k, even on the "low" months and other months are bringing in £120k.

The higher salary gets taxed more because it is high, it doesn't make them worse off or even remotely on par than those earning less than half.

Also, why are you adding UC on top of the minimum wage household as if everyone on nmw automatically gets it when that is absolutely not the case?

I'm sorry but saying a household bringing in almost £120k most months are "hardly any better off" than a nmw household makes no sense.

I'm not saying op doesn't have high costs to look at or anything, but making out it's obvious they're struggling because they're almost on par with people earning the minimum, when they are in the top range of salaries, is just ridiculous.

These comments are so irritating

They also show how many don't understand the tax system or the impact of additional benefits.

Yes, I was in a very decent salary and just committed to more things! Expensive holidays, study etc. My role was made redundant before Xmas so we are living on a lower income and I’ve reduced my salary expectations. I just feel like you live to your means so having more money doesn’t really mean you are better off!

I live in a nice town in NE and have a large three bed semi. I bought it about ten years ago. It's old, solid as fuck and costs me less than £700 a month. It used to be £450 until rates went up when I remortgaged. Purchase price was 130k and my mortgage is about 110 now. That said, out of a take home of about 3k a month I have very little left. Two teens just eat (literally) my income.

We have a mortgage of over 1500 per month with childcare fees of almost the same and managed to save something on a wage of that and we aren’t careful with money. Check your privilege.

It’s not a question of guilt tripping the OP but rather than money is being wasted somewhere. OP needs to sit down and examine all outgoings and budget accordingly. Whinging on mumsnet achieves nothing.

There are plenty of part time roles that pay better than £20k. Can you at least look online and see what’s available on your industry/skill set? Lots of remote working available now.
Are you sure? I’ve just been job-hunting and the fully remote roles are like hen’s teeth – upwards of 500 applications. Most places want a minimum of a day in the office, more usually 40%. I just calculated two job offers and the 0.8 one paying £10k more worked out at only £30 more pm once you factored in travel costs and additional childcare. The 0.6 roles all worked out at roughly £20k and with less flexibility than it sounds like the OP needs. Wages have stagnated and it’s an employer’s market right now.

I think if OP needs to remain self-employed for flexibility, she needs to recognise that that’s a benefit – instead of “we’ve got no money left each month” it should be “we can afford for me to be part-time”. And I reckon a bit of looking at bank statements would uncover the frittering here and there – coffees, top-up shops, ice creams – that adds up to a chunk each month.

This must be a pre-2022 interest only mortgage?

Otherwise not possible.

How will you pay off the capital?

you have had the great advice to sit down and track all your expenditure in a spreadsheet. Your mortgage is absolutely humongous but in theory you should still have 50% of your earnings left after bills. While you are spreadsheeting try and pinpoint any lifestyle creep, things like subscriptions add up, kids hobbies (my son does 5 clubs its over £100 a month), in game currency, hair cuts etc

Is there a chance DH gambles?

Fuck me 🤦🏻‍♀️

It does seem odd that you can only afford the basis on your income.

I can understand how it feels like you have no idea where your money goes, we bring in a bit less and never have as much money as we should and our mortgage is less than £800.

We do however have some childcare costs, 3 cars, holidays, pets and we can eat out as a family maybe once a month although we don't usually.

I am a fritterer, spend money on all kinds of non essentials so that's where our money goes.

ETA...

Do a spreadsheet to see where all your money is going, you will be surprised how it all adds up!

I’ve got £390k mortgage and pay £440pcm - people need to do a lot more shopping around and use mortgage brokers.

Interest only?

OP given your mortgage is ok and you jave no childcare costs… things should be quite as tight as you say.

The reality is that everything is getting more expensive, so if your wages aren’t increasing at the same pace you are going to feel your lifestyle is getting worse.

I think working in a part time job earning £20k is probably a bit of a luxury in this climate.

This link takes you to gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax
You can download load the spreadsheet showing income by %.
It only goes up to 2023 because it takes time to get the data.
In 2023 £99k was top 4%.

So top 10% is not a misrepresentative figure.

I never said they're hardly better off or almost on a par with those on NMW. You're just making stuff up. I said they're on a bit more than double the NMW. But we constantly read on MN that the NMW isn't a living wage and that people on that salary can't cope without UC top-ups etc. So a household income of roughly 2x that (and again, the DH is a higher rate taxpayer) is a decent income, but hardly untold riches is it? It's double the minimum. Or Alternatively, if it is untold riches then why are OP's aspirations unrealistic?

None of this is to say that the OP doesn't need to examine how she and her DP spend their money, BTW.

OK, We possibly do slightly better than you in terms of take home when your earnings are low, but generally under earn you- I earn 25k, DH 80. But not a million miles out.

You need to seriously look at what you are spending. We are not short on cash. We have 2 cars, holidays, don't worry about what we spend in the supermarket (thankfully - 2 teens eat an enormous amount!). We have enough savings so we could replace a roof and/or a car. We put in a new bathroom last year.

We are fortunate in that none of us have expensive hobbies, and noone is wedded to expensive brands or clothing. But we go out for dinner, have days out, save, and are debt free. You are spending on something that us hammering your income - because you should be having a lifestyle more than skint!

I have said it before on threads there are a number of factors why people on a good salary feel like this.

1. Place in your life cycle - mortgages, children, extensions etc is the most expensive time of your life.
2. Debt - it can eat money
3. False comparison - assuming everyone else is debt free when they have big houses, nice cars and holidays.
4. Generational wealth being passed down. I would rather have my parents than £, so I don’t begrudge people who inherit young as they have lost something irreplaceable.

£900 on a mortgage becomes £900 to save once it is paid off.

Meals out for us as a family are now an extortionate luxury as is buying lunch, coffee or having a drink in a pub. I really do not know how people do this on a regular basis.

But this isn’t a fair comparison at all. Partly because it’s a single person earning £100k and partly because the low earner is eligible for various benefits.

I used the entitled2 benefits calculator, using a single earner at £24k, in a privately rented house near me, with one child with no childcare costs. This hypothetical person would be entitled to over £1,100 a month in benefits. (Obviously this will vary based on housing costs, council tax, etc. in different parts of the country.)

So now the income comparison is:

£100,000 earnings = £5,700 net income monthly
£24,000 earnings = £1,700 net income monthly + £1,100 benefits = £2,800 monthly total

So the ‘4x the minimum wage’ is actually just slightly over 2x the minimum wage when it comes to money coming in each month. If you have a student loan that you took out to get the education needed to earn that £100k, you’ll take home less (depending on the plan you’re on, could be ~ £600 pm less take home).

I think part of the problem is that people hear £100k and think 4x minimum wage should be giving them a significantly better lifestyle than it is, but if you said to them that you’re actually only two times as well off, then expectations would be lower. And, yes, I’m well aware that if you’re on £24k you would be thrilled to have double your income.

I sympathise. We are also feeling the pinch and have a significantly lower mortgage, albeit lower income too. We just keep plodding and hope one day we'll catch a break.