To want to be fluent in a second language?

[Jelliots]

Has anyone successfully learnt a second language as an adult from scratch without actually moving to that country? Can it be done?

im Duolingo level at the moment but as soon as I try to watch anything in my chosen language im totally lost! I’ve nearly finished the Duolingo course so clearly it’s not going to cut it! What else could I do? Can’t afford private lessons

It can be done, but you do need regular contact with native speakers, at least once a week, for conversation. You also need to practise reading and writing and have native or fluent speakers check over your work. For French and Spanish, there's the Alliance Francaise and the Instituto Cervantes, but there are also private tutors on several apps. The latter option is cheaper.

You can also try free cafe meet ups and other events in city centres.

Ah! No typo, just got it wrong 😂 see what I mean? I’m struggling!
I’m 44 so learning a new language now is quite difficult

You could give up Italian and go back to German. You could get all the way to at least the bottom of CEFR C1 just with online courses that are free because the German government puts money into them.

It’s about 70 pounds a year

To get rid of or greatly reduce an accent, you need to have specialised phonetics lessons. These aren't cheap, but there are some free resources online that you can use to practise.

If it's French you learnt, there is lots of great stuff out there. Some experts regularly post videos and information on their websites; there's Michel Billiers, Christophe Patris (pronunciation avec Christophe) and French Sounds on Youtube.

There's most likely similar things out there for other commonly learnt European languages as well, like Spanish and German. The less popular the language, unfortunately, the less likely you'll find free resources like this.

I am sure it's possible but but the people I know who are truly fluent in a 2nd language (myself included) all moved countries.

Pp who asked what is hardest to learn...I found most difficult to understand discussions where you also need a lot of local & cultural context. Radio chat, comedy etc. Some regional accents are very difficult to understand.

That's true. And there are also different areas of a language (pronunciation, grammar, writing), which are more or less difficult. I actually think Spanish grammar is more complicated than Mandarin - Mandarin has no tenses, Spanish has LOTS and you need to learn all the conjugations and how to accurately use each of them. On the other hand, Mandarin has more difficult pronunciation for an English speaker, and also writing.

It's true, but it is possible to be become fluent if you have regular conversation (at least once a week) with a native speaker. It's the speaking and immersion that count. Of course that is much easier if you live in the country as you say.

Just reading along for now, but I like the look of LingoPie and would be interested. I'm learning Spanish via a small weekly class, plus Duolingo and Language Transfer.

I’m learning portguese and oh god the tenses! & everything being either male or female

Haha, it's the case for most of the world's languages though. Romance languages (Portuguese is one) all have lots of tenses.

I speak several languages all with my English accent and I always get compliments so not looking to change it.

My daughter learnt languages at school in the countries and she sounds like a native and she hates my accent 😂

yep 😃 it’s English thats the oddity.

There is definitely no shame at all in having a foreign accent, it can even be endearing. But what foreign accents actually are is a lack of technical accuracy in the pronunciation of a language - i.e. not making individual sounds or following the rhythm of the language as a native would. This lack of accuracy is nothing 'negative' though, it just is what it is. Some people want to sound authentic and native-like in their foreign language and find doing so is fun (I definitely did when I lived abroad and had pronunciation lessons), so it's a case of to each their own there.

Absolutely and you listed some good resource for French especially.

For kids a recommendation is 3h/week fully in a language as a minimum. So a conversational meetup can help. I have a friend who taught herself Norwegian mainly through duolingo and TV. I’d aim got lots of Italian TV, audiobooks etc.

Why do you want to learn Italian?

And the only people I know who have become fluent, or near fluent and don’t live in the country live with someone who is a native speaker of that language.

Because it’s a beautiful language and I go there every year

If you go there every year you probably already know more Italian than you think. Being in the country even for a holiday is awesome because you pick up vocabulary just walking around – ah, that’s the word for tanning salon, that’s X-ray department, that's frozen peas.

Practice is everything, like learning anything is. Watch the news in Italian. At first it will be jibber-jabber. Then you'll get the gist of it with the help of the pictures. Then you'll pick out words and phrases. Then you'll understand half of it and one day you'll realise you understood most of it.

Just don't expect it to be quick.

My problem is mixing languages. My dh is Dutch so I speak to his family in Dutch, my Spanish is very good because I lived there and now my French is good because I’ve learnt it through classes as I’m moving there.

The issue I have is switching between languages. I have to pause my brain and think about which language I’m about to use. Hard to explain. My dh learnt several languages as a child and doesn’t have this problem.

I am fluent in Spanish which I learned from scratch as an adult.
I would recommend watching films, YouTube videos and tv programmes, initially in Italian with English subtitles, then in Italian with Italian subtitles and eventually in Italian with no subtitles.
This helped me hugely.
There will be podcasts for students learning Italian which I’m sure would also be very helpful.
You definitely need to practise speaking, this is key.
Have a look at italki where you can arrange video calls with a teacher in your chosen language. The cost is very reasonable. You don’t have to have a lesson every week: if cost is an issue, you could opt for once a fortnight or even less frequently, whatever works for you.
Good luck, it requires a lot of effort, but can be done.

I live in Austrian and I'm fluent in German. I'm also currently learning Norwegian.
I think it is very hard to become completely fluent unless you live in the country but it can be done.
My German was pretty good before I moved here but it was only once I started talkign to people every day that I really got to grips with the nuances of the languages and also the particular dialects they speak where I live. Dialects plural because there are a lot of differences between different valleys and even villages.

Immersion works the best so you need to try to replicate being immersed in the language when you are at home. That's what I am doing with Norwegian at the moment.
I am in various facebook groups about outdoor life in Norway and am therefore reading all the time. I watch all kinds of videos in those groups or on youtube. I watch things in Norwegian on Netflix. I started by having the subtitles on in English, progressed to having the subtitles on in Norwegian and now I'm getting to the point where I can watch without the subtitles.
I have read two books of short stories in Norwegian and now I'm about to start a full novel. I've read it in English before so I have an idea what it's about.
Speaking is harder and I do find when I go to Norway that there are a lot of different dialects so it is hard to understand and also as soon as they hear your accent they start speaking in English. I try to keep replying in Norwegian and sometimes I'll say I'm learning Norwegian so it would be really helpful if they could speak in Norwegian.

It also depends a lot on what type of learner you are. I'm very visual and I absolutely have to see words written down otherwise I can't retain them. It's no good for me to just try to listen and speak. I do a lot of grammar exercises and write a lot (I also did this in German).
I have a friend who picked up German just by listening to the radio all the time. He even had it on low level all through the night and claimed his brain continued to learn while asleep.

I did get very very good before moving to the countries, but when I moved, it was just accelerated. I always think it depends how much time you have to put in. (Edited: that sounds like a brag, but I got 'good' through spending hours copying out verb tables etc - I'm definitely one of those people who has to work hard for my language skills!).

Try italki for classes. It's basically a database of teachers. I used to teach there and also b use it for learning ( had one student who had a 30 minute class every day to practise general conversations - with teachers on a kind of rotation.) All price ranges/ types of teachers etc. On meetup there are usually some language exchange groups in some towns/cities - I usually go to a few with the intention of finding one or 2 people to meet for coffee with etc.

Oh, also, for what it's worth, I don't think duolingo can take you too far beyond set phrases - I like to see how/ why the verbal/ whatever functions in that way, and understand the rules, rather than a random use.

Apparently sleep learning is a thing!

im the same as you, if i see Italian written down I can understand it far better than actually hearing it

No. I've been learning a foreigner language for 10 years. I'm pretty good at it now, I can read novels, newspapers in that language. I can chat with people when I visit and it's hugely rewarding and very much appreciated. It's very well worth while and I thoroughly recommend it OP. But when native speakers of that language are in full flow, it's difficult so I would say I am fluent.

In answer to your question, not a chance! And certainly not with Duolingo! It's useful as a revision aid but if you really want to learn you must go to a class.

Do it!