To think there is a poor understanding of a healthy diet?

[LivelyLemonQuoter]

I think most people think they know what a healthy diet looks like, but in reality they do not. I see so many comments on MN that demonstrate this.

The most common one is that fruit should be limited because of its sugar content. This is very bad advice. Sugar in fruit has little impact on our blood sugar levels. And most people in the UK do not eat enough fruit.

The other is concern over eating any carbs. Wholemeal bread and pasta is fine, carbs in pastry and doughnuts is not great though.

And most people need to eat more nuts. Nuts are very good for you and should be part of your regular diet.

You really would, wouldn’t you?

This is very true. When you compare ‘junk’ food ingredients from the 70s and 80s to the equivalent junk food now, it’s terrifying how much they’ve changed.

Yes processed but not ultra processed - nutritional dreadful but not designed to increase consumption in the same way.

What do you mean by "not designed to increase consumption". I am sure the manufacturers did their best to increase consumption😂 I think fundus crispy pancakes and many other 1970s foods were very processed.

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

That is fascinating!

And if you certainly look at the top 25 there is a whole range of differing national diets and cuisines - including diets not typically thought of as super healthy.

The longitudinal studies don’t really bear out that saturated fats are just fine at a population level. They need more research. I’m personally of the view they are okay IF the rest of your diet is broadly Mediterranean in style.

The 2 long data sets in the States (Nurses Health and Health Professionals Follow-up) still comes up as recently as this year that healthy ageing revolves around a diet of vegetables, fruit, legumes, nuts, whole grains, unsaturated fats and low fat dairy. Unhealthy ageing is associated with a diet of trans fats, sodium, sugary beverages and red or processed meats (or both). Healthy ageing is defined as reaching 70 with no chronic health problems.

Funnily enough the researchers found fruit was the most strongly associated dietary factor for healthy ageing 😆

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-025-03570-5

For every study saying saturated fat causes heart disease you’ll get another saying there is no correlation between heart disease and saturated fats. Especially the kind that are natural like butter, dairy in it’s original form, coconut products & meat.

I truly think that scientists don’t know. I also think that it’s not as black and white as eat this food = disease. There have to be SO many other factors involved such as stress levels including loneliness and lack of community and support, exercise or lack of, genetics, environment (artificial light exposure/lack of sunlight, sedentary lifestyle, toxins, air pollution, microplastics etc etc) and sleep quality.

Yes processed. Not ultra processed.

The ingredients today in white bread are not the same as in the 70s. Same with most other food. Even vegetables have been developed to be sweeter.

i agree sugar is the culprit
they may eat carbs in korea and japan but i bet they dont consume sugar

Look at it this way.

We have whole diet industries based upon high carb/low fat diets.

The food industry in general is based upon the previous message that fat = bad and carbs = good. Which only came about in the first place because gram for gram fat has more calories than carbs. But people who eat healthily but have higher fat diets tend to consume few calories overall because of the increased satiety and reduced snacking.

There is a lot of money and business tied up in it.

How easy do you think it would be to change an entire culture around eating?

I generally only venture into the fruit (because I do eat some), veg, dairy and meat aisles at the supermarket because the rest of them are pure carbs. Packet foods, jarred foods, pre-prepared foods all filled with carbs. It's really hard to find anything premade that isn't loaded with unnecessary carbs. Going out for dinner is difficult because eg sauces aren't made with real ingredients, they're bought in junk filled with crap. Because it's cheaper.

People have been eating low fat/high carb diets from so long, many wouldn't know where to start. These food stuffs are promoted as part of healthy living - 'healthy' ready meals for example. There was a comparison done once between the nutritional value of 'healthy'ready meals and bog standard or even value ones. There was barely any difference. The 'healthy' ones were no better for anyone than the cheap crap ones. But people believed they were. I've looked myself. Very little difference.

And, if you read a lot of research then you should also know that research is shelved if the findings do not support the desired hypothesis.

And findings can be manipulated.

If someone came out and publicly announced that a moderate amount of saturated fat wasn't an issue if the rest of your diet is (actually) healthy but people really should be cutting down on carbs on a huge scale because sugar is the real culprit, where wpuld the governemnt, food industeies, hospitality and average households even start?

The people who have looked at the evidence and produced the guidance have clearly decided that overall it demonstrates saturated fat increases ldl cholesterol (which means it will increase the risk of heart disease).

Rather than spending hours searching through evidence why not get your lipid profiles checked?

Why are you reading a lot of research to see whether you are eating a good diet with regard to your risk of heart disease and diabetes?. Presumably you have never been overweight and if your lipid profiles and Hba1c are good, carry on.

Clearly. Clear as mud.

Ok thanks for the advice 😆 (but I already have and my lipid profiles are perfect thanks. I will continue to eat all the butter, full fat dairy, grass fed meat and coconuts and enjoy them too 😂).

What do you mean when you say your lipid profiles are perfect? Why do you spend so much time researching if you are a perfect weight, and have a perfect lipid profile and presumably hba1c levels?

Gosh, you're a bit out of date! People have come out and said this, and written their best-selling diet books about it, and people have pontificated about it online for decades now.

And yet there’s still so much misinformation out there!

If you take MN as a gauge, people still believe weight control is simply about calories in calories out, they don’t understand (or believe in) the role of blood glucose stability and insulin, they DEFINITELY don’t understand the role of hormones, they don’t understand that we need protein and fat (and that fat doesn’t make you fat).

There have been some excellent high profile proponents of this stuff (Michael Moseley, Tim Spector, Jessie Inchauspe) — all science-backed - and yet still people think toast, low-fat yogurt, eating like a bird and heading off to Slimming World every January will make them healthy.

Oh, and the NHS and Department of Health refuses to respond to any of it and prefers its outdated recommendations.

What a strange thing to assume about how I spend my time. I take an interest in health as I am a parent and want to give my children the best I can. I spend a normal amount of time reading about health and listening to podcasts thanks. I am a busy person who home educates their children. This information about fat is common knowledge. You don’t need to spend hours and hours researching and digging.

I’m surprised that you haven’t come across this as a person deeply invested in the research.

Anyway I’m done with this conversation now, it’s clear you don’t want to believe anything other than the outdated, debunked theory and are wedded to what you perceive to be ‘the truth’ so I’m out of this thread. I wish you all the best wombat.

But it is calories in, calories out. There is absolutely no evidence otherwise.

Low carb means you might adhere to a low calorie diet better because you are eating more satiating food. That’s the trick behind low carb, behind the Blood Sugar Diet and any other magical way of eating that Big Diet/Healthcare/Pharma/NHS won’t adopt and prescribe to everyone besides they’re just SO UNINFORMED!

It doesn’t mean it’s incorrect or wrong to eat that way, because if it helps you stick to a diet without significant deprivation and lose weight then that’s a good diet for you.

I would be really careful in combining the word “science backed” and the Glucose Goddess in the same sentence. She’s a charlatan of the highest order.

😂

But it is calories in, calories out. There is absolutely no evidence otherwise.
Low carb means you might adhere to a low calorie diet better because you are eating more satiating food. That’s the trick behind low carb, behind the Blood Sugar Diet and any other magical way of eating that Big Diet/Healthcare/Pharma/NHS won’t adopt and prescribe to everyone besides they’re just SO UNINFORMED!

This is exactly the level of misunderstanding I’m talking about.

It absolutely is proven that many, many things affect how our bodies use calories, yet you and many others still believe we work like a car engine. It’s honestly baffling.

I’m with @picturethispatsy - I’m out. The level of understanding on this thread is woeful.

… where is the rigorously researched published evidence then?

Rather than referring to people who largely appear to do the rounds of Joe Rogan/Diary of a CEO/Mel Robbins type podcasts as part of their sales pitch?

Weight control is about calories in an calories out. I get that the diet you having been following for a few months has worked well for you (assuming your lipid profile and Hba1c is good) but that doesn't mean everyone who eats carbs will be overweight. I eat similarly to OP and also fish because that is my preference and always has been. I am nearly 60 and I don't think my BMI has ever been over 21 my entire life.

Calories in vs out still applies to people with insulin resistance, it's just the type of food and timing needs to be considered too; so whilst not as simply as just counting calories, people aren't putting on weight and/or not losing even when they're heavily restricting as long as they are mindful about what they are eating which lots of people struggle to do for various reasons.