AIBU to think there should be organised work experience placement schemes for school students

[DuaNinja]

Starting to feel very frustrated trying to help DD to find a year 12 work experience placement. She completed a week in year 10 but this year the school want them to find something relevant to future studies and not just to go to work with your parents or similar. It sounds so easy in theory but in practice why would a random company want the hassle of dealing with a work experience kid? It would be great if there was a proper system in place for this. I believe in Ireland students undertake work experience in year 11 and have a vocational / transition year between lower exams and senior exams (apologies if this is not correct, I only have a very vague understanding of this). In my day the school had links with local businesses and we signed up tor a placement and the company we went to had a plan in place for us. DD's school offers no practical help, just links to websites about how to write a CV. So far she has sent her CV and a targeted email to 9 companies and has not had a single response. Also, if she does get a response, we know nothing about the potential companies offering the place. I would feel happier if I knew she was going somewhere that had been vetted in some way. Not that she is going to get a placement at this rate.

Maybe not, but I haven't seen you posting on any other topic other than 'teaching' and supporting the NUT perspective - including creating threads dedicated to the woes of the 'profession'. Happy to be proved wrong...so give some examples of other MN topics you've posted on.

Here you go, here's a thread I started today.

Enjoy being proved wrong

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5312328-who-is-your-favourite-gladiator?

@noblegiraffe like the gladiator that I am I'll take that one on the chin, but try not to obsfucate from the points I was making; that it ain't so easy finding work experience when you're at school or college especiall when your qualification depends on it and you live in a deprived area.

And the last thing that anyone needs is a smug 'educationalist' making remarks about 'learning how to tie shoelaces'. nb: my autistic ds aged 23 is crap at tying shoelaces but irrespective of 'educationalists' he's off to Uni to study his passion in Sept.

And for those parents out there wondering where can we get some work experience for your dc - put an ad in your local paper - it worked for ds, and I'm actually wearing now the sweatshirt his placement gave him. Win-win.

We tried to have a work experience programme at a place I used to work and it was a nightmare.
School allocated random kids who had zero interest in our organisation or sector and from every angle it was troublesome.
The desk based work involved accessing sensitive information about people in their community (possibly even their own family) so that was not appropriate.
Going out and about was not ok as staff didn’t want to be putting themselves at risk of accusations from a safe guarding point of view, being alone with minors , driving a minor etc.

Having tried to find a placement for my own family almost everywhere says no because they are not insured/ safeguarding.

it’s not really viable anymore as School have expectations/ standards/ paperwork that needs completing and there’s too many hoops.
I agree some national scheme that takes care of all the red tape is needed but I’m not sure it’s viable.

The days of kids approaching places of interest to them, asking and getting an ok are long gone.

A decent school careers department should at least have a few contacts to suggest to students. Parents of fellow students are an obvious starting point. I used to help out my DCs school by going in once a year to talk about my job. I called it a day when the students became a bit stroppy though.

The paperwork we have to fill in now is so onerous, it’s basically impossible, even for employees DC/relatives/friends etc.

Wfh is also a massive issue; there’s virtually no-one in the office all week to supervise them.

Tbh as a graduate recruiter; a week’s work experience is pointless anyway. I’m much more interested in if they held a PT job while studying, etc.

I disagree, mostly. I think work experience is extremely valuable at that age. I can still remember doing mine in year 10. However, I don't think the responsibility for finding work placements should be with the school. Part of the learning comes from researching the job market, contacting employees etc. Schools could provide inspiration, for example, a list of companies businesses that students have done placements with in previous years. Obviously lots of students have contacts through parents and can snap up a great opportunity - no problems. If the school has some work experience contacts for those who are struggling to find a placement I don't think that's a bad thing, but I don't think it should be the default. Let the kids have a go at finding a placement. If they are struggling, the school can support them through the process. Imagine having to organise placements for a whole year group! That's just crazy.

You've answered your own question. Because it's a pain, you end up basically babysitting and usually trying to find something for them to do (and it's usually something mundane so pointless for the student as well). We've had a few successful ones, but these were university graduates so could take on actual work and a few were selected to stay on. It does depend alot on the aptitude of the student so I think can also be risky.

That's actually a really good point, kids who are proactive at doing this are much more likely to be adding value too. If it was done for them I'm not sure how good they'll all be

Yes it’s pretty difficult for many to source work experience. My DD recently finally got somewhere, HMRC. She wants to go into a maths career so somewhat relevant. DS missed it thanks to Covid. We had a back up plan of bringing her into our work places (also gov depts) but much prefer she got somewhere herself. Good thing is i’ll be able to meet her for lunch as their office is next door to ours!

Relevant Work experience is so hard to find unless your parents know someone you’re able to work at and even then it’s so hard on the person who is looking after them for a couple of weeks.

On the flip side a friend asked me recently if her son could do work experience at my work (work at a global Ad Agency so kinda cool) so I sorted it with HR and found some people who would be okay with him sitting with them only to be asked ‘what exactly he would be doing so he could make up his mind if it was something he wanted to do 😒’.

I don’t think it should be down to schools to coordinate, but there needs to be an acknowledgment that work experience expectations do not align with real life workplaces. All the paperwork and safeguarding expectations weren’t in place when work experience was around in the 90s. A lot of knowledge-based work involves computer systems and/or sensitive information which you can’t just get a login for to last a week. My job doesn’t involve a list of tasks that I can easily dish out - a lot of it is longer term relationship building and iterative problem solving. Or perhaps I’m just a poor delegator. If I had a work experience person it would probably involve me having to give them boring talks and then me maybe giving them some YouTube videos to watch.
I remember writing handwritten letters to companies during university to try to get some office-based experience and being universally ignored, so possibly not a new thing, it’s just too much hassle for someone along the line.

I'm surprised your back up plan would work. Our CS dept doesn't allow any work experience unless it's through one of the formal Cab Office schemes we've signed up for - and definitely no kids of staff. I find it very frustrating that there isn't one common approach to this sort of thing across the whole of the CS.

I agree. When I was 16 it was all organised by the school. We had a huge menu of jobs to choose from. It shouldn't be left up to parents and it only exacerbates inequality. It should be a national scheme and linked to improving and widening vocational courses and apprenticeships.

It's true this is a huge problem in terms of social mobility. I worked in a private school where students had parents in the professions and with connections. They got placements with medical experience or with solicitors. Those kind of things really make you stand out on UCAS and job applications.

I found it impossible to do the same for my sons. We emailed and phoned around but didn't know anyone with any weight and got nothing. He spent a week sat in a classroom with the other Y10 students who's parents hadn't managed to swing it for them. You really have to be quite lucky to find something useful.

When I did work experience the school used to help arrange placements but that seems to have gone out the window.

Agreed.
In the meantime you could try a local school - not in the classroom but in the school office. June/July is sooo busy and an extra pair of hands for Photocopying, filing, running errands etc will be appreciated. Plus is everyone is DBSd.
Most people working in a school office are doing it to fit round their kids. They all probably have past more interesting careers - TV production, Publishing, HR in ours - you never know who they know

I work in the NH S and we are inundated with requests for work experience from schools and colleges but the wider participation team cannot get incredibly busy consultants to allow young people into a hugely busy area. However friends and family of the medical staff mysteriously do turn up occasionaly!

it's always worth making use of personal contacts as the work experience field is highly non inclusive and without some regulation will always favour those who know people or certain schools with good links. Way of the world.

Back in the early 80s we did our work experience at 14. I did 2 weeks in a local bank. I certainly didn't know anyone, or send CV ( what can a 14yr old realistically put in one anyway!) I wrote a letter asking for a placement in banking or travel agents. The school sorted the placement. They had a list and matched interest to pupil. It put me off office work for life! Small confined space with a woman with severe BO. 🤢 I did enjoy the experience overall and was given £25 by the manager at the end.

Yeah Ireland do have work placement programs. It usually in 4th year/transition year of secondary school so age 16-17.
I did 3 weeks
1 week shadowing an environmental scientist in a manufacturing facility.
1 week at a solicitors
1 week in a Crèche

I think it’s more widely acceptable here, but one word of advice is they usually expect the child to make the phone calls/applications. It always comes across better.

One thing that does need addressing to make work experience more appealing is to ensure the students realistically will achieve qualifications that give them a chance of entry into the profession. Drs possibly reasonably turn their backs on students predicted a D in chemistry and biology A level as the WE is a time waste for everyone. Wider participation teams are though pressured to try and get these kids in to fit an agenda.

Dc has got a placement lined up ( finally) after sending multiple e mails to different places. Most didn't even acknowledge the email! I think it would be reasonable for schools to keep a record of those companies who are known to facilitate work experience/ have taken students in previous years.

9 isn't nearly enough if writing on spec.

DD has to do work experience for her practical course. We/she wrote to 15 well targeted places and got 2 positive replies. She has just done the first placement and was doing useful work for them (mainly cleaning reptile enclosures). That was a 45min drive from us (so 1.5hrs round trip twice a day for the week).

An A level student popping in for a week may be much less helpful. I think you need to be looking at 30.

Plus we got DD's sorted 5 months in advance.

As an employer, it's our policy now to only offer work experience placements for the children of our staff.

To be honest, we don't really want any work experience students at all because it's far too much hassle, but we offer placements for staff children as a good will gesture towards our employees because we know how hard it can be for them to find other options.

There is usually a lot of paperwork to fill in prior to any placements. I understand the reasons for this, but it's frustrating to have all that extra work created when we're the ones putting ourselves out to help in the first place. Work experience students offer no value to the organisation - they aren't actually around for long enough to actually be of any use because they would be out of the door by the time you had actually taught them to do anything that would genuinely be helpful to anyone. Also, our insurance requires that under-18s are supervised at all times by a DBS-checked member of staff, unless they stay with their parent the entire time instead, and it's just too much responsibility to put all that on an unrelated staff member.

It's a nice idea to give kids work experience but the whole thing needs rethinking in my view. The current approach definitely disadvantages kids from poorer backgrounds who won't have the same opportunities through their parents, and I'm not sure that it gives much meaningful experience to anyone in any case. I think you need longer time periods and government support to make it more attractive to employers, and a fair application process for the young people themselves. Realistically, though, I can't see that happening right now so maybe we should just scrap the whole thing entirely?

My just 15 year old is failing dismally at finding a placement. He really doesn't know what he wants to do and nobody wants them anyway. A careers week in school, with lots of outside speakers, would be much more helpful. Neither my husband or I have suitable workplaces either and so many of our friends WFH. I think it is an outdated system because of the nature of modern workplaces -digital systems become a gdpr issue, the safeguarding paperwork for a week is huge and so many people work remotely, at least for some of the week. My son's school does have someone in charge of 'careers' who has bombarded us constantly this year with emails but nothing remotely helpful.