Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of all the newspaper articles saying lies about DLA and PIP

1000 replies

elliejjtiny · 08/04/2025 22:37

To get any DLA or PIP you have to be significantly disabled. To get the higher rate of either part you have to be severely disabled.

A motability car is not free, it's rented. To get one you need to either be unable to walk 50 metres or have a severe learning disability, which is very difficult to get.

It's always happened but since the stuff in the news about changes to PIP it's got worse.

Articles in the newspapers claiming you can get a free car for bed wetting, which just doesn't happen. There will be children like my ds who get DLA because they have a number of problems including bedwetting but nobody gets high rate mobility for bed wetting on its own.

There are other articles about people claiming PIP and DLA for various minor sounding conditions and I am so fed up with it. I know from experience that the newspapers will have talked to people claiming PIP/DLA and twist everything they say to make them sound like a scrounger.

All these articles are giving off the message that anyone with any minor disability can claim loads of benefits.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/04/2025 12:19

Morph22010 · 12/04/2025 11:43

But how can it be used to fight benefit fraud by what you search? I book flights and things for my mum through my internet as she can’t do it. I also look at holidays I will never book and houses I will never buy purely through interest

They use algorithms to flag things up for human review. It’s not going to flag up idle searches unless you’re searching for things that indicate you are planning a crime.

JobhuntingDespair · 12/04/2025 12:25

@Wildflowers99

But you’ve access that world. You’re in it, now. Just because it isn’t perfect it doesn’t mean you don’t now have every tool at your disposal to avoid all the things you don’t like. You have absolutely no need to leave your home ever again with wfh and food delivery. Nobody really chats to anyone they don’t know now, so you can be selective about who you speak to. Forums like this aren’t mandatory, you can click off at any time.

But she didn't say she wanted to be isolated from the world - in fact it's quite clear she wants to be part of it. She doesn't like being shut out, or the way participation in the world and workplace is only allowed in a way that excludes her.

In fact, people being more insular nowadays probably makes things worse. (Also perhaps people moving areas more.) It's harder to make friends, whereas before, these autistic women would have been more likely to be swept up by the wider social networks around them. More likely to be accepted at the level of friendship due to proximity and years of shared experiences (even if subconsciously or otherwise seen as a bit different). Whereas now they may have friendly acquaintances but unless people really click they are less likely to spend enough time together to build a lasting friendship.

It can be very lonely being an autistic woman. It's quite typical to have lots of friendly acquaintances but very few if any real friends. The rare people you really get on with are like gold dust. This makes life harder in so many ways, not having people you can rely on or even the general day to day sharing that is important for mental health.

It's a stereotype related to the male presentation of autism that says we don't want to be sociable. In fact, autistic women are generally very driven to socialise, to connect, and it is often a source of great pain and difficulty that we find it hard to fit in. This has been overlooked by focusing on the male experience, as in so many things...

https://aeon.co/essays/the-missing-women-of-autism-are-differently-different
(Unfortunately the article I wanted to link is behind a paywall, but this is by the same researcher)

Before you say it - yes there are some posters on MN who are apparently autistic and don't want to bother with friendships. However, they always have their little social group, human connection, in their family. I don't understand or agree with this mindset btw, but they have social connection.

<p>Photo by Benoit Tessier/Reuters</p>

The missing women of autism are differently different | Aeon Essays

Long believed to be particularly associated with males, new research is revolutionising our understanding of autism

https://aeon.co/essays/the-missing-women-of-autism-are-differently-different

GivenUpOnSleep · 12/04/2025 12:25

Morph22010 · 12/04/2025 11:52

Ageee and Means tested pip has the added complication about who should be means tested. For kids with child benefit it’s the parents but would adult children on pip still be means tested based on parental /household/ spouse income or just their own individual income. It is a real can of worms that could have expensive consequences if you do means test the wider family.

I agree, I pointed all of that out to her yesterday as well. That if you means test based on the household income then not only would this be even more expensive to implement (and not possible via the HMRC system as she has advocated in her post today saying it should be done like child benefit) and also undermine the entire purpose of PIP which is to provide disabled people with independence. It would also mean some of the most vulnerable people would be subject to abuse as they’d be completely financially dependent on others.

If you were to means-test it based on individual income then all you’d be doing is forcing the PIP claimants who do work to give up work, as the majority couldn’t afford to continue to do so without PIP to contribute towards their care needs/ mobility costs so that they can access work. Therefore you actually increase the welfare bill because instead of just providing PIP to these people and them paying their own living costs via work and also being taxpayers, instead they have to claim PIP and universal credit to cover their living costs and cease paying tax.

So as well as the cost of means-testing it (per a DWP member of staff on this thread) being estimated to be at least £0.5 billion in additional staff salary costs (7000 to 8000 additional DWP staff), to save only £2 million in PIP payments, you also increase universal credit costs by far more than £2m, lower employment participation and tax revenue, and you have to pay for offices for those staff, IT equipment, pensions (public sector so a very large ongoing cost), HR and IT support, and implement an IT system that would costs tens of billions before they can even start to do it. Just changing the threshold for child benefit recently is costing HMRC £2.7 billion, in an existing IT system that is set up already to collect all of the required data.

Utterly economically illiterate. But @Bumpitybumper clearly knows something that economists and the Government and software engineers do not so I’m hoping her masterplan will soon be revealed…

elliejjtiny · 12/04/2025 12:28

Someone like Bella Ramsey will have autism, which used to be called Aspergers syndrome. A 6 year old who is non verbal and incontinent will probably have autism with learning disabilities. Hope that helps.

It's not that simple though. My 10 year old doesn't have learning disabilities but he is nothing like Bella Ramsey. He has autism, pica, insomnia and he self harms.

OP posts:
TigerRag · 12/04/2025 12:41

RejoiceandSing · 12/04/2025 12:15

They don't have exactly the same thing. Autism is diagnosed in three levels, depending on support needed. Look it up ffs.

That's America. Certainly when I was diagnosed it was just ASC ) Autism spectrum condition (2912)

GivenUpOnSleep · 12/04/2025 13:00

TigerRag · 12/04/2025 12:41

That's America. Certainly when I was diagnosed it was just ASC ) Autism spectrum condition (2912)

Yes, the “levels” thing is discredited by current medical research because it is based on how much someone’s autism affects other people rather than the autistic person themselves. Someone being able to mask because they don’t also have learning difficulties or other co-morbid conditions does not mean their autism impacts them any less. In fact, research has shown that those who can mask are generally at higher risk because their support needs regarding their autism are usually underestimated, and because they have the double whammy of the impact of the autism and the very detrimental mental health impact of masking.

It also doesn’t make sense because the autistic spectrum (contrary to the ignorant beliefs that you often see expressed, that this is a measurement of “how autistic” someone is, leading to the idiotic claims that “everyone is a bit autistic”) measures the impact on an autistic person (through the standardised tests) in various different areas. This is why the presentation of the condition varies so much between different people (as well as whether other co-morbid conditions are present). That’s why autism diagnosis reports don’t just say that the threshold for diagnosis (which is clearly established with standardised testing models) has been met, but provide a profile of the spectrum of how the condition impacts the individual in these specific parts of the spectrum. How would someone with very high needs in one part of the spectrum and very low needs in another fit into these “level” categories? It’s nonsensical.

That’s why the “levels” of diagnosis is not used in the UK. Just like with asthma or MS or dementia or diabetes or innumerable other health conditions the impact/ severity for a person varies depending on their environment and over time, and it is nonsensical to try to categorise it because there is no place that a non-arbitrary line between levels could be drawn, and people might frequently cross them.

I just find it unfathomable that there are still people who want to spout off about medical conditions that they clearly know nothing about at all (aside from the ridiculous self-contradictory and logically inconsistent assertions, which they then deny having said despite the comments being here in writing for us all to see).

I do wonder whether they consider themselves an expert on other medical conditions in the same way and try to tell people with cancer or epilepsy or any other medical condition that they are a self-appointed expert on it, or that they can’t possibly have epilepsy because they aren’t at all like their brother’s friend’s colleague’s nephew who happens to have the same medical condition but is a five year old child. Bizarre.

To be sick of all the newspaper articles saying lies about DLA and PIP
IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 12/04/2025 13:45

Wildflowers99 · 12/04/2025 09:59

What specific changes do you want to see?

I’d like to see less division. The system as it is now serves very few, so I see no value in the strategies put together in the last few years that try to invigorate it, because they haven’t worked.

We all exist together. Society should be governed in a way that allows the most people to thrive as possible. Right now, and definitely in schools, very few are truly thriving, and I think we can do better.

It’s not about individualism, or about reordering everything, it’s about allowing more flexibility, less targets, less pressure, allow more people to blossom.

I’m struggling to understand why anyone at the moment would fight to defend education as it is, unless they really cannot visualise anything different, or better. People argue for these limitations, and I don’t understand why.

Rising SEND costs are a necessary feature of the current system. There’s no alternative unless more money is spent to create smaller classrooms, more SS places, more staff etc. Yet people are aggressively resistant to accepting that perhaps it’s the system that’s the problem and that it’s no longer serving the population, wherever you are within it.

OonaStubbs · 12/04/2025 14:05

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what justification people use for why all these people need to claim all these benefits. We can't afford it, so it needs to end. People need to realise this and adapt.

TigerRag · 12/04/2025 14:07

OonaStubbs · 12/04/2025 14:05

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what justification people use for why all these people need to claim all these benefits. We can't afford it, so it needs to end. People need to realise this and adapt.

What do we live on then? Fresh air?

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 12/04/2025 14:09

OonaStubbs · 12/04/2025 14:05

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what justification people use for why all these people need to claim all these benefits. We can't afford it, so it needs to end. People need to realise this and adapt.

Ok. How? If you have the solution to this problem and can tell everyone on benefits how they can adapt to not need them, please go ahead and share with us.

WiddlinDiddlin · 12/04/2025 14:10

Obviously, we'll adapt to living on fresh air and I assume our wheelchairs will also run on fresh air. Maybe I can adapt to teleportation so I no longer need my motability vehicle.

Sirzy · 12/04/2025 14:10

OonaStubbs · 12/04/2025 14:05

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what justification people use for why all these people need to claim all these benefits. We can't afford it, so it needs to end. People need to realise this and adapt.

And if those awful disabled people die as a result then it’s one less thing for people to worry about I guess!

we should be looking after the most vulnerable not basically telling them tough shit just get on with it.

WiddlinDiddlin · 12/04/2025 14:13

I have found a saving...

Scrap all the childcare, education, child benefit.

You made it, you raise it, educate it, house it, feed it. Not my problem, why should I have to pay for all this?

Does that mean you can't work and will starve, oh well, adapt.

Wildflowers99 · 12/04/2025 14:17

IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 12/04/2025 13:45

I’d like to see less division. The system as it is now serves very few, so I see no value in the strategies put together in the last few years that try to invigorate it, because they haven’t worked.

We all exist together. Society should be governed in a way that allows the most people to thrive as possible. Right now, and definitely in schools, very few are truly thriving, and I think we can do better.

It’s not about individualism, or about reordering everything, it’s about allowing more flexibility, less targets, less pressure, allow more people to blossom.

I’m struggling to understand why anyone at the moment would fight to defend education as it is, unless they really cannot visualise anything different, or better. People argue for these limitations, and I don’t understand why.

Rising SEND costs are a necessary feature of the current system. There’s no alternative unless more money is spent to create smaller classrooms, more SS places, more staff etc. Yet people are aggressively resistant to accepting that perhaps it’s the system that’s the problem and that it’s no longer serving the population, wherever you are within it.

That’s very vague. Can you give me a list of practical, tangible things you would like implemented?

PandoraSox · 12/04/2025 14:28

WiddlinDiddlin · 12/04/2025 14:13

I have found a saving...

Scrap all the childcare, education, child benefit.

You made it, you raise it, educate it, house it, feed it. Not my problem, why should I have to pay for all this?

Does that mean you can't work and will starve, oh well, adapt.

Yes, it it funny isn't, how certain people forget that we all pay towards their children's upkeep. I have no children. Why should I pay for anyone else's? (In reality, I am happy to).

The hatred shown towards disabled people recently, especially on MN, has really shocked me.

Wildflowers99 · 12/04/2025 14:55

PandoraSox · 12/04/2025 14:28

Yes, it it funny isn't, how certain people forget that we all pay towards their children's upkeep. I have no children. Why should I pay for anyone else's? (In reality, I am happy to).

The hatred shown towards disabled people recently, especially on MN, has really shocked me.

Fgs nobody ‘hates’ disabled people. Or very few people do. Having concerns about the cost of the MASSIVE benefits bill is not ‘hating on disabled people’. It’s such a ridiculous thought terminating cliche. It reminds me of trans rights activists who say people ‘hate trans people’ if they have perfectly valid concerns about the impact of trans on society. Just engage with the figures and prove us all wrong? How do we get an extra 5 billion a year? If you can answer that then this conversation is over.

Golaz · 12/04/2025 15:00

Wildflowers99 · 12/04/2025 14:55

Fgs nobody ‘hates’ disabled people. Or very few people do. Having concerns about the cost of the MASSIVE benefits bill is not ‘hating on disabled people’. It’s such a ridiculous thought terminating cliche. It reminds me of trans rights activists who say people ‘hate trans people’ if they have perfectly valid concerns about the impact of trans on society. Just engage with the figures and prove us all wrong? How do we get an extra 5 billion a year? If you can answer that then this conversation is over.

It reminds me of trans rights activists who say people ‘hate trans people’ if they have perfectly valid concerns about the impact of trans on society

concerns about the impact of trans on society…

concerns about the impact of disableds on society…

concerned about the impact of gays on society…

Can you hear yourself more clearly yet ?

Locutus2000 · 12/04/2025 15:07

Golaz · 11/04/2025 18:23

This woman is extremely able bodied and in no sense meets the criteria for any PIP, let alone the full amount. Her child also does not meet criteria for DLA. She is a chronic and pathological liar . (Hence having a statement that she cannot walk more than 200 meters when she is a prolific walker; declaring that she can’t use her hands or lift things, despite me watching her carrying a 4 year old in a pushchair up several flights of stairs, etc). Everyone who knows her in real life knows this. These aren’t my particular, personal judgements.

To be honest I think it was silly for me to bring up this example because she is such an extraordinary individual- i don’t actually think there are many people out there quite like this. I guess it was simply that, having seen how she can manipulate the system, it has opened my eyes to the extent to which it can be done, so when the government says the assessment processes aren’t right, I understand it.

Edited

Everyone who knows her in real life knows this. These aren’t my particular, personal judgements.

Yet none of these people have reported her? The DWP would be very interested in such an extreme case of benefit fraud.

Golaz · 12/04/2025 15:09

Locutus2000 · 12/04/2025 15:07

Everyone who knows her in real life knows this. These aren’t my particular, personal judgements.

Yet none of these people have reported her? The DWP would be very interested in such an extreme case of benefit fraud.

I don’t know if anyone has reported her obviously. It’s not something I would do personally although it does astonish me that she could get away with what she does

GivenUpOnSleep · 12/04/2025 15:10

WiddlinDiddlin · 12/04/2025 14:13

I have found a saving...

Scrap all the childcare, education, child benefit.

You made it, you raise it, educate it, house it, feed it. Not my problem, why should I have to pay for all this?

Does that mean you can't work and will starve, oh well, adapt.

It?

Locutus2000 · 12/04/2025 15:11

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 18:40

You keep going on and on about medical science but there is no proof that a nonverbal 5 year old in nappies with an ASD diagnosis has exactly the same condition as somebody like Bella Ramsey. None whatsoever. There is no definitive test for autism. There may be studies which show ‘autistic individuals are more likely to..’ but no scan, no blood test, no biopsy, no medical imaging can diagnose it. It’s based on self reported symptoms which are entirely subjective to the individual. Going on about ‘medical science’ is utterly misleading as this very same ‘medical science’ acknowledges gender identity which is a nonsense concept to me (and most posters on here, by the sounds of it).

The sooner we start to crunch the issue of ‘neurodiversity’ in the same way we’ve scrutinised gender identity, the better.

The sooner we start to crunch the issue of ‘neurodiversity’ in the same way we’ve scrutinised gender identity, the better.

This is the most offensive thing you have said so far, do you just enjoy upsetting people?

Sad.

Golaz · 12/04/2025 15:13

Locutus2000 · 12/04/2025 15:11

The sooner we start to crunch the issue of ‘neurodiversity’ in the same way we’ve scrutinised gender identity, the better.

This is the most offensive thing you have said so far, do you just enjoy upsetting people?

Sad.

Maybe it also says something about how “we have scrutinised gender identity” eh?

GivenUpOnSleep · 12/04/2025 15:16

WiddlinDiddlin · 12/04/2025 14:13

I have found a saving...

Scrap all the childcare, education, child benefit.

You made it, you raise it, educate it, house it, feed it. Not my problem, why should I have to pay for all this?

Does that mean you can't work and will starve, oh well, adapt.

Aside from how disgusting your post is, I highly doubt you’d fare well “out in the wild” without any of the infrastructure of society.

Are you good at foraging and fighting bears?

For human society to exist at all there has to be cooperation. The only reason you have a house, a television, cars, schools, medicine, computers, fresh water supply, electricity supply, roads and everything else is because of complex economic systems developed through human cooperation, sharing of knowledge and working together for the common good.

You’d not have been able to achieve a single one of the comforts of modern life that you enjoy without the help of other people, both historically and in the present. Part of the social contract that allows you to benefit from the work of others in such a way is that you also provide what you are able to provide to better society for those that follow, or help less fortunate members of that society when they are in need of help.

If you don’t wish to be part of that system then you’re welcome to go and live in a jungle on your own and see how long you last.

Okshacky · 12/04/2025 15:18

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with discussing how we are going to pay for those who cannot support themselves. I don’t think that’s what’s happening though is it? Because the solution can’t be “let’s just say they don’t have any needs/disability at all”.

GivenUpOnSleep · 12/04/2025 15:18

Locutus2000 · 12/04/2025 15:11

The sooner we start to crunch the issue of ‘neurodiversity’ in the same way we’ve scrutinised gender identity, the better.

This is the most offensive thing you have said so far, do you just enjoy upsetting people?

Sad.

Shhhhh….. she’s denied she said all of these things despite them being there in the thread for all to read. We’re supposed to go along with it and pretend that she didn’t and we all imagined it, otherwise she’ll go off into another Daily Mail style rant and I’m not sure anybody has the patience left to tolerate it yet again.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread