To be sick of all the newspaper articles saying lies about DLA and PIP

[elliejjtiny]

To get any DLA or PIP you have to be significantly disabled. To get the higher rate of either part you have to be severely disabled.

A motability car is not free, it's rented. To get one you need to either be unable to walk 50 metres or have a severe learning disability, which is very difficult to get.

It's always happened but since the stuff in the news about changes to PIP it's got worse.

Articles in the newspapers claiming you can get a free car for bed wetting, which just doesn't happen. There will be children like my ds who get DLA because they have a number of problems including bedwetting but nobody gets high rate mobility for bed wetting on its own.

There are other articles about people claiming PIP and DLA for various minor sounding conditions and I am so fed up with it. I know from experience that the newspapers will have talked to people claiming PIP/DLA and twist everything they say to make them sound like a scrounger.

All these articles are giving off the message that anyone with any minor disability can claim loads of benefits.

My ADHD testing was done in a lab.

I was part of a group 18 months ago that had alternative testing to see if it was cheaper for the NHS. It was not.

Thank you! I sincerely believe one day we will be stunned that we managed to apply such excellent critical thought to gender identity on here but neurodiversity was beyond reproach. It doesn’t mean people are lying, or aren’t suffering - just that the thought system doesn’t stand up to any real scrutiny.

Did you really just say this, and think it’s acceptable, ok or even real?

oh dear

that’s not what I meant- quite the opposite:

Ok then!

For the record, the earth is spherical and you cannot change your sex.

For the record, some people are autistic, some people are trans , both these things are real axes of human diversity. The earth is spherical and all sorts of medical conditions rely on self report symptoms .

Well if you believe in gender identity then I suppose we will also come at neurodiversity from different angles.

It actually did have various profiles, but the original research after Hans Asperger only focused on canner’s autism and Asperger’s.

It was a rare diagnosis until more research was done in certain directions, then the diagnostic manuals were updated. That’s how most medical conditions develop. Diagnostic manuals are updated every few years to take into account new discoveries and treatments. Everything medical - drugs, treatments, diagnoses, outcomes - is subject to scrutiny and regular review and updating. Autism is no different.

Gender identity is partly mental illness that is bizarrely validated (I mean, you wouldn’t agree that an anorexic girl is fat would you?) and partly (mostly?) populated by men (won’t go any further with this as I’ll be deleted!).

It is nothing like autism. It’s not a disability. It’s not investigated. There’s no requirement to involve outside agencies for their observations of the child in order to diagnose. I really fail to see the similarities.

Men pretending they are women are doing harm.
ND people are not doing harm by asking for adjustments.

No but it does harm to excuse the actions of violent men by using neurodiversity as a mitigation. I think very few violent or sexually violent men will be held fully to account in years to come due to their diagnoses.

The similarities are very clear.

Both are a confusing mix of a disability, medical condition that requires treatment, ‘identity’, brain difference that can’t be solidly identified but there are some variations according to some studies…

Both have rapidly expanded at around the same time and skyrocketed in number

Both have massively expanded their net for diagnoses. Both now have a huge spectrum of ‘symptoms’ far beyond what they started with.

Both claim to have a biological base but mostly without any smoking gun. Some studies say transgender people have brain differences, same with autism. But nothing conclusive.

Trans people are far more likely to be ND and vice versa

Both want to educate the world on their belief system and have us all make accommodations for it.

How many do you think are doing that?
Do you have figures on this?

Real scrutiny? Critical thought?

Have you read your own posts here? This has given me a good chuckle this evening, thank you. 😆

I mean, most rapists aren’t held to account routinely, men very often get away with it, sometimes they become presidents!

I agree that violent men should not be allowed to use a diagnosis to avoid justice.

I see violent children in schools differently because in the vast majority of these cases these children either shouldn’t be in mainstream school, or they are not having their needs met, and they are not being supervised well enough. One attack is bad enough, repeat ones should never happen.
Deciding they are naughty, undisciplined children helps no one, and is more likely to result in more violent men who haven’t been able to learn to regulate themselves.

Prisons are full of young men with undiagnosed ND, imagine the savings there if they’d had adequate recognition and support in school?

It would be fucking stupid to drop a whole diagnosis to make a few men face justice.
If taken more seriously these diagnoses could change many people’s lives for the better.

Both claim to have a biological base but mostly without any smoking gun

wht a curious thing to say.

Both relate to fascinating developments in our understandings of neuro-developmental biology. The science of this is in its infancy, but it’s extremely ignorant and regressive to dismiss it all out of hand because we don’t have all the answers yet:

you know That whole understanding of the earth being spherical- that you are so attached to and all - it was far from intuitive or immediately obvious, it took really complex developments in science to get there. So it is with contemporary neuroscience.

Wow, you’re making progress. Did you look that up just now?

Maybe try some of the medical and economic journals next.

But ‘meeting needs’ is a fallacy because who will ‘meet their needs’ as a grown adult? If their girlfriend doesn’t meet their needs will that be the reason given for violence? Is that acceptable? And it’s not a ‘few men’ if you’re right about hoards of ND men being in prison.

As for saying they shouldn’t be able to avoid justice with a diagnosis - well, if they’re violent at school and we’re teaching them it’s because they can’t help it, isn’t it then very unfair to say actually you are responsible now just because they’re turned 18? At what point does this responsibility kick in? Overnight? Is it tapered? Equally if you’re saying ND people are inherently wired differently than it should be a reason to avoid justice shouldn’t it? In the same way a severe MH diagnosis might result in a not guilty by way of insanity result.

These are yet more reasons why the ND belief system deeply concerns me. Personal responsibility and justice will be deeply affected in years to come.

A lot.

A quarter of inmates have or say they have ADHD.

Jesus Christ. The more I read of a particular posters comments, the more concerned I am. People with MH issues are more likely to harm themselves and become the victims of crime than commit them. And tell me you've never had to try and seek help for someone in crisis, because if you had, and experienced the interminable passing of the hot potatofrom one allegedly hamstrung "service" to another before serious damage is done to themselves and the fallout from that, because I swear to God if you had you wouldn't be quite so dispassionate and callous about the whole flipping subject. Ye Gods. This is getting out of hand now.

Meeting needs is part of helping ND children learn to regulate themselves.

It’s not about letting anyone get away with anything, it’s about preventing meltdown and teaching children to spot the signs and learn to do it for themselves, with various reasonable adjustments such as being able to leave a room, being able to avoid sensory overload etc. If they’re violent at school they’re not able to learn these valuable lessons. This takes time. A diagnosis is valuable because you can learn to parent your child appropriately and take the time to help them learn.

Of course in some cases the process is longer, in some cases it’s very difficult, but of course they must face some sort of justice or appropriate therapy/rehabilitation if that can help.

You’re making some very weird, broad, and unrealistic assumptions about autism here. It’s coming across very oddly indeed.

I am still here. Easter holidays means I have even less time than usual and I was reading but never quite getting to the end of the thread.

@WeylandYutani can you tell me more about how you got a criminal record for having a meltdown in public please, if you don't mind me asking. I'm dreading this happening to my ds2. He has already ended up with an ambulance being called because he had a shutdown in public.

There’s nothing weird about it. It’s perfectly logical.

When transgender ideology was enshrined in law, we were blithely reassured that it would make no difference to our lives, that is affected only a small minority and ‘why would you want to oppress such vulnerable people? Why is it even your business?’.

Well - it turned out the effects were more far reaching than we ever anticipated. We need to learn from this and anticipate where new thought systems will take us.

Do we give lesser sentences to people on account of their neurodiversity? Do we give them a sentence at all, if they their neurodiversity is directly linked to the crime ie impulse control? If not, then should we be excusing away school child violence and telling them it’s not their fault as they’re disabled? If half, or even most, of people end up with a diagnosis, is it then discriminatory against NT people (by then a minority in prison) to give them longer sentences?

I have read a few EHCPs and they seem to hinge around avoiding triggers. ‘Sam needs 121 with a maximum of 3 other classmates as he cannot tolerate crowds. He also needs very low background noise as he does not like noise’ - that kind of thing. How does this play out when they leave school? Does it work?

All things we need to think about.

Hi, thanks it is ok to ask.
I was overwhelmed. I was scared and it was like everyone was attacking me. I shouted and swore. Arrested for public disorder.

But you were literally saying she doesn't contribute as a lower rate taxpayer. And she is right that that's an unpleasant, sneery attitude toward people in low paid work.

It's really upsetting to be trying so hard to work, but be sneered at for "not contributing".

It's not black and white, disabled deserving full support, or totally fine and should get a better job. Some of us are low paid precisely because of our disabilities.

Ironically my disability is autism, which that poster clearly doesn't believe in, but she's right about the sneery attitude towards the low paid.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like something ds2 would do under extreme pressure.