To feel that the reasons some children don't do well at school, isn't because they don't try hard enough?

[Daydreamingforever]

Ffs had an idiot tell me this is why some kids don't do well, and that they cou,d of they tried hard enough

I replied I'm sure it's jot as simple as that, amdtnat for a start the child needs to believe in themselves ....
And that there's allsorts of reasons kids don't do well at school, but struggled to explain much more than there's all sorts of socio-economic reasons for it, but didn't elaborate further

@CheeringOnTheSmartyPants has it 100% correct. Unfortunately, the shit parents on here will continue not to improve themselves for their children, they will continue to blame everyone else. It's so tiring.

Not really. DD1 did really well at school throughout and is now at the top university in the country for her subject. DD2 did well at primary school but struggled to settle in secondary school- through being extremely anxious, not naughty or disruptive. She was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD at 13 and school did try to make some adjustments and she was able to attend more regularly. But then she was sexually assaulted outside school by an older boy who went to her school. The school response was rather feeble, even though the police were involved, and she was also being bullied about the assault while at school. We then had to think more about her overall wellbeing above her education, but eventually enrolled her for GCSEs through an online school. She isn't doing many, but is in a much better place mentally and we hope she will get on ok at college which is vastly different from school and much more supportive.

I don't blame schools per se, but the system in which they operate.

I also know a whole host of other similar parents to us just in my local area who had kids who started secondary school in the 2020 intake - professional families, bright, lovely kids and decent, engaged parents who struggled with secondary school in one way or another and had to try several schools to find one that fit, private school, home school or private tutoring or a mixture, state provided alternative educational settings or online school. Go figure.

To me blaming parents for the failing education system is a bit like blaming individuals for the obesity crisis when clearly there is something going on at a society level, when it affects so many people.

There is some glaringly obvious stuff missing from this debate about ‘trying harder’ and that is around intrinsic and extrinsic motivation.

Intrinsic motivation is that which comes from within us and we all have it when something is inherently interesting or important to us.

Extrinsic motivation is behaviour driven by the promise of external reward. In this case GCSE results and the promise of a ‘successful future’.

School is the ultimate example of extrinsic outcomes. The curriculum is designed by adults who purport to ‘know best’ and young people are told what is important in their life when the reality is that for most kids maths and English, history, science etc just ISN’T that important to them. And that’s ok! We are not all alike. We are all not robots. We are all diverse and unique with different abilities and skills. Unfortunately the school system only recognises academic achievement and ability and nothing else.

So back to the question of ‘trying harder’ people do naturally try hard when something means something to them. When it is of great value and interest to them. What is the old saying ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force it to drink’.

This "oh I'm not academic" shrugging off of education makes me wonder if it's a one of the reasons the UK's productivity has been lacking.

How does being more academic make me productive at work? I could be constantly being distracted by my huge brain telling me that this work is boring and beneath me and my wide range of talents that I ought to be using. 😆

Being academic and generally smart means you have knowledge you can use in high paying jobs that not everyone can get.

My DS got a first in his integrated maths master's at Imperial and now makes a butt load of money working at a Hedge Fund building mathematical models.

What is tiring is people having opinions without working in education and seeing the sh*tshow it is turning into. Both as staff and as parents with children at those schools.

I have been the teacher in the classroom, with a child vomiting into a sick bag, with admin refusing to call parents/send him home.

There is a reason teachers are hemorrhaging out of UK education, either to work in other occupations OR to go overseas to work in schools where they can have some work life balance.

Read the article about the Birmingham super-head who has today resigned. Our educational system is broken.

I have been the teacher in the classroom, with a child vomiting into a sick bag, with admin refusing to call parents/send him home.

Why wouldn’t Admin call the parents of a sick child @TheAmusedQuail?

It sounds like the opposite to me. Blaking schools when the families are where things are going on at a societal level. The schools are trying (with not enough resources or teachers) to deal with the consequences of that.

It is an academy. Trying to stay out of special measures due to appalling attendance figures. Hence wanted every child possible in school. Which is fine. But what isn't fine is the way the children are treated. Shouted at like criminals. Herded around like animals. Children developing bladder issues because they weren't allowed to go to the toilet (I know it was because of vandalism in the loos, but that is a minority of children).

And the vomiting in the classroom... I have no words. Horrific for the child concerned, awful for the rest of the class and me as the teacher.

It’s sounds dreadful.
Surely the way the children are treated affects attendance too?

@BoredZelda
as @noblegiraffesaid, passing after Year 11 is really difficult and the best chance they have is in school. You said to teach them to work smarter not harder - so passing the first time is the smart option.
Some of my Year 11s this year are really lazy. Some of the class are over target and working their socks off. Classes are ruined by a group of kids who don’t care and won’t work. All are more than capable of passing their exam.

I suppose so. I know they have multiple truancy officers (or whatever the official term is now) and go out every morning and knock on doors, and have even been known to go into houses (with parental permission) to go to talk to reluctant attendees.

It honestly was like working in a zoo, but the animals were the management, not the students (who could be awful, but they're teenagers).

I would rather homeschool my children than let them be in a school with a bullying culture like that.

Tbh, most of us would do far better in our Highers now than when we sat them in at 17! Our executive function is better, our ability to delay gratification has improved and a year seems like a snap of the fingers!

Pop any 30/40/50 year old into a year’s study and they will outperform their 17 year old self. That’s why young people with involved parents do better. Those parents bring those skills to bear to help their child succeed.