Baby born after womb transplant

[Wildflowers99]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/34329085/womb-transplant-baby-hope/

I’m not really sure how I feel about this.

On one hand it all seems consensual and fine, and nice that they’re all happy.

On the other it seems yet more expansion of surrogacy-type science, making pregnancy/babies a sort of human right that we should go to any lengths to make possible for people. And all the ethical/moral issues around that.

What do you think?

Kidney was an example it wasnt meant to mean it wasnt safer. What I'm meaning is people are arguing that this woman shouldn't be happy (being provided with a womb) because of the potential for that surgery being used in crime elsewhere e.g organ coercion. And the problem with that argument is these organ crimes are happening in the world, with kidneys, livers etc etc. I think your living in cloud cookcoo land if you would stop yourself or a loved one having surgery simply because bad examples of it may exist elsewhere.

And why on earth would UK NHS surgeons have black market organs anyway ffs.

You were the person who suggested they might? 🤣

Well I myself am happy for my body and organs to be used after my death it doesnt make me angry that less men might. And in terms of living women if that means we are more generous again so what. I've no idea what lengths I would go to for a loved one because I've never been in that position, but i wouldn't say outright no.

It also may not be happening in the NHS but it has been happening in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/05/met-police-investigate-more-organ-trafficking-cases-in-uk

No I didnt! Read it again.

Yes organ trafficking is a crime!

I agree totally. Will people expect the NHS to fund them eventually? What a misuse of dwindling resources if they do! The alternative is just as abhorrent - only available to wealthy private patients. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

Maybe it might end up like cosmetic surgery or non life threatening non emergency surgery were some of it is done under NHS and some people pay privately for their ops and procedures

We're talking about LIVING donation. And just because you're happy to do it and think it's just because "women are kinder than men" doesn't mean that the rest of us don't want to discuss it and wonder why there is a discrepancy.

I'm discussing womb transplants on this thread. Start another thread if you like about "why do we think more women than men donate".

It's all part of the same ethical discussion. But you've made it very clear on this thread that you struggle to think about more than one thing at a time. Your thought process is incredibly black and white. So I'm not surprised at this response.

Ok so the ethics then of general donation, as of course men cant donate a womb- why do you think more women than men donate other organs?

The fact no operation is without risk puts me off this. The sister could have died and left her family motherless, the recipient could have died for not much reason - essentially no one NEEDS a womb to live. Obviously the risk to the baby itself. The mother still needs a hysterectomy as she can't keep the organ or be on anti rejection drugs forever. So another risky operation, potentially leaving that child without a mother or a with a ill mother.

Yes kidney donations exist but they're not without problems. Just look at the health problems Selena Gomez, and her donor have. And the recent death of Michelle Tratenburg.
The woman will be on serious anti rejection drugs during pregnancy and after. As someone else pointed out the medics don't know the long term effects it will have on the womb recipients or the babies in utero.

Well given that she was happy to risk the life of her baby and her sister to meet her wants of having one growing inside her says it all. She put her wants over two lives and put two lives at risk.

It will be about what men want, ultimately, and get.

It is extremely rare indeed that live donors are used for lung tissue. Because the vascular system - heart and lungs - are so intertwined, cadavers are commonly sourced for lung transplants.

I would be surprised if this were a thing the NHS or similar in other countries would regularly fund. The price must be enormous. Done as a scientific breakthrough sure, or for rich people paying privately.

A Dr. relative was telling me that organ transplants cost around 1-2 million $ Canadian each.

I wonder how many women are born without a functioning womb. Then of course they would need to want to undertake surgery. Then there would need to be a suitable donor. I cant imagine it would be common surgery. This surgery was carried out with the help of a charity.

Is there any topic were people dont try and bring it back to men. Wombs you say? Ah yes that reminds me about selfish men 🙄

The criteria for this research program is that the woman must have uterine failure, not necessarily to have been born without a womb. So this would include women who have had to have hysterectomies due to disease like cancer or endometriosis.

Correct although to be clear I didnt say born without a womb.

You're right, you said "born without a functioning womb". I pointed out that a woman didn't need to be "born without a functioning womb" to be eligible. Around 40000 hysterectomies took place in 2023 and it's estimated that around 30% of those were done on women under 40 (which I think is the upper age limit of the research project in the UK?). So that's a few thousand women in addition to the few who are actually born without a functioning womb. But then discount those women who have already had children and the ones who don't want children - I can't be bothered digging that deeply into those figures. But I'd say at a completely guess at least a few hundred women would be eligible and might want such a procedure. It's not insignificant.

Ok you said born without a womb which is different to born without a functioning womb. I just wanted to make sure you didnt misread what I had said that's all.

I cant say womb transplant is something on my radar as being important to me as it doesnt affect me, but I can imagine how for some women under those circumstances it would be a massive impact to them. I cant say an operation is unnecessary just because it doesn't affect me. Same with some amount of money or time being used for gender reassignment surgery. Again not something important to me but to another person could mean the whole world.

And just like you can imagine it having a positive impact on some women I can imagine it having a negative impact on others. That's why the ethics need to be interrogated.

Well we covered that before when talking about any surgery or organ donation being open to criminals and crime. You were of the opinion that you shouldnt have any type of organ donation based on the fact that crime can be associated with it somewhere in the world.