Unintended Consequences

[ZigZagJigsaw]

A colleague who voted for Brexit has just been informed she has no right to emigrate to the Netherlands with her family. The reason she wants to move there is because she says NL have a better healthcare system than the U.K. Her youngest child (teenager) is highly dependent on the NHS and apparently that would disqualify them, unless they agreed to not use the public health care system.

The above would apply even if the NL classed my colleague and her husband as highly skilled, which they don’t. British nationals are now classed as third country nationals so they have to relocate as highly skilled immigrants. No more free movement after Brexit.

She’s trying to be exactly the same kind of economic migrant to the NL that she voted to keep out of the U.K. And for some reason doesn’t seem to see the link.

I’m just nodding politely at work but I had to come and vent somewhere.

AIBU to think “you brought this on yourself”?

I basically just moved to UK in december 2015 and then the referendum happened 7 months after. I worked on Heathrow and saw so many people and came across elderly volunteer in the morning after the referendum. (plenty elderly volunteers work on Heathrow every day). We chatted and I just asked him if he is happy with the result. He said: "Finally we got our country back! Back in the 70s we voted for the fair trade, not for free movements or anything else!"
I think they believed that a day after referendum all the immigrants will just suddenly move back and only UK citizens will stay :-) How limited all the voters were. And most of them were very elderly, could probably not even be around anymore now. The biggest problem was, nobody believed it will actually happen, so plenty of voters against Brexit did not vote, as they were sure it can not happen! But opposite - everyone FOR it, voted, and this is why it did.
But, they did not even have a clue what they are voting for. And then you have those that complain how Europe is. Well, you voted, you swallow it now.

Who's Janet?

She's a bit hard of thinking 😂/dim?!

I campaigned massively in favour of Europe /against Brexit... The number of brexiteers who expected there to be no downsides for them PERSONALLY is astonishing... The entitlement!

Me too

Bloody idiots. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is racist but every racist voted for Brexit .
If it wasn’t so bloody awful it would be funny. I’m beyond glad that Brexit voters are being hurt. Just devastated that those of us with more than a 1/4 of a brain have to deal with the problems and consequences dealt to us by idiots & racists.

You can spend 90/180 in Europe , I do it.

Look what Trump has done in little more than 100 days. Ursula said yesterday she wanted a tariff free trade deal with the US, but stuffed the UK a neighbour out of spite.

The UK does have a free trade deal with the EU. Although you wouldn't think it on this thread as people are suffering terribly. It's like the end of the world.

As for the OP, you shouldn't be allowed to burden another country without contribution.

It was the Australian government - she was English and the family wanted to emigrate to Australia. This was years ago so no idea if it’s still the case.

@Mayana1
googling can you emigrate to Australia if you have autism:

Emigrating to Australia with a disability, including autism, can be challenging due to Australia's strict health requirements for visas, which may lead to denial if the applicant is deemed to pose a significant cost to the healthcare system.

All the Brits with property in Spain and Portugal who voted for Brexit and now can’t spend all their time sunning themselves - the idiots got what they voted for. The complaining is British superiority at its finest.

YANBU. She sounds like an entitled and ignorant cow. I wish you had enabled the voting on this post, I’d be interested to see the result!

You are a saint for shutting up OP. I wouldn't be able to refrain from a passive aggressive "oh dear Brexit hasn't worked out as well as some hoped, has it ....".

What an act of self sabotage it was. And we all live with the consequences.

In the hospitality industry, now the Europeans have left, you see dark faces in roles which wasn't the case before.

So, for example, the other day, the barista was wearing a headscarf. I think this is great, we had a nice chat.

Bet the Brexiteers didn't think that one through!

ok so that seems to be a UK problem - i have been told that i (and i have citizenship) can't move back to UK and start claiming benefits, and i can't access the NHS. I wrote to my MP to ask because my mum is getting older and more frail by the month. It would be an option for me to move back for a while.

So - there is more to their story than just rolling up and claiming.

Part of the problem is, of course, that the UK is too daft to implement proper checks and issue ID cards, or even health service cards. It's a "you" problem in other words. (collective rather than individual "you")

However. I have also checked if my mum could move here and still get healthcare. The answer seems to be, there are hoops, but you will be able to jump them because you have been here a long time and have "paid in". You can also, of course, take your UK pension(s) and have them paid anywhere in the world you like. They are frozen at the point you move away though and no increases applied.

Without knowing everyone's detailed backgrounds, it is nearly impossible to say who can move where and when.

But again: if other countries manage to keep within the EU rules, the UK could too. They chose not to in many respects.

I usually don't comment, but I lived in the Netherlands, and no, the health system is not better than here, and it would very hard for her to get the help she needs.

I think you’re doing very well to hold your tongue.

What did she expect?

Ursula said yesterday she wanted a tariff free trade deal with the US, but stuffed the UK a neighbour out of spite.

oh god, "spite" is such a MN word.

The EU have consistently offered the hand of "friendship" (customs union) to the UK and time and again whoever is in charge that week says "nope". Presumably in the belief that the UK can negotiate better terms with individual countries if they aren't tainted by the EU.

That may be the case, i haven't yet seen any evidence that they are managing this particularly well, and the new Trump presidency seems to be firmly sticking spokes in all the wheels of international trade so it is stymied a bit by this.

Free movement of goods and services (which includes humans as services) is the bedrock of the EU. IMO it will be one of the last things that goes, if the EU does indeed dissolve.

For me, with the EU the bigger issue is that we need to cut loose the takers like Hungary (happy to take funds, less happy to abide by the conditions those funds impose on everyone) the better.

I also think a lot of people see the words "free movement" and think only of their holidays - which is fair enough, not everyone works in logistics, or international business etc. And if you shop online it is not always clear that there is also a mechanism for the import of small value goods to individuals for personal use.

As for immigration - lots of south Asian communities voted firmly for Brexit in the (mistaken? not sure how it actually works) belief that they would find it easier to bring over family members or workers in their businesses etc. Certainly they knew it would level out tariffs for imports/exports where previously they were at a disadvantage to EU companies.

Agree.

And this is why I hold David Cameron, amongst others, responsible, and all his supporters who voted for him while being anti-Brexit smugly thinking that we would never leave. It’s not just the Brexit voters, it’s the pro-remain Tories who enabled the referendum to keep the Tories in. I’m looking at you ILs.

Brits living in the EU also experienced Brexit first hand. I was alright because I've always had dual citizenship but other Brits had to go through the long and stressful process of getting their right to remain sorted and there is always the risk of the rules changing and no longer having the right to remain in their countries.

I'm in Germany so it was fine, they were very helpful. I don't live in a huge city, and our local mayor's office wrote to all of us Brits reassuring us that everything would be fine, but if we wanted to apply for citizenship we could get info from them.

I dithered for ages because it is a big step, but in the end the process was very straightforward, and when it got close to the date we received another reminder, and then we were given priority so that it could all get done and dusted. Other countries were different, my friends in France decided not to take citizenship, but got residence permits. Other friends in Spain said the hurdles were very high, and in know one lot went back to UK rather than face the costs.

People who had moved over more recently had more worries over here, because you have to live here for 8 (or 5?) years before you can apply but even then most of them are fine. EU friends in the UK paid out way way more than we had to, hideously expensive.

ETA: to get back to the major point of the OP. I wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable in politely, kindly even, pointing out that this is exactly what Brexit was about and that it is hardly surprising that other countries want to (p)reserve their resources for their own citizens.

In Finland it was apparently a coin toss if it went smoothly or not - some got a fast decision with no difficulties, others waited a long long time and had to give further info/evidence and were left in limbo for ages. Plus the expense. Getting Finnish citizenship requires passing the language exam which can be very difficult for many people.

I was worried for my Finnish mum in the UK as she never got British citizenship and at first she was just saying she had got indefinite right to remain donkeys years ago and didn't see the need to do anything more but thankfully she did get things sorted in time.

This always baffles me - if you voted to end freedom of movement, what did you expect?!
It's done what it says!

Oh lordy, that's funny but depressing 😂
Although that bendy bananas thing - wasn't that in one of the main tabloids? Think it was The Sun or could be wrong. Was one of them anyway, where they were saying if we left the EU we'd be able to have more say over the size of our food, and wouldn't have to put up with the EU saying we can't have bendy bananas anymore, something like that anyway 😁

the bananas thing was a lie by "journalist" Boris Johnson when at the telegraph, IIRC.

The EU actually have a section on their website with all the lies/mistruths printed about their regulations. And a lot of it comes from UK.

This isn’t correct - healthcare in NL is not free at the point of delivery like with the NHS. As PP said above, there is mandatory health insurance (plus employer co pay etc). It’s certainly not free!