Unintended Consequences

[ZigZagJigsaw]

A colleague who voted for Brexit has just been informed she has no right to emigrate to the Netherlands with her family. The reason she wants to move there is because she says NL have a better healthcare system than the U.K. Her youngest child (teenager) is highly dependent on the NHS and apparently that would disqualify them, unless they agreed to not use the public health care system.

The above would apply even if the NL classed my colleague and her husband as highly skilled, which they don’t. British nationals are now classed as third country nationals so they have to relocate as highly skilled immigrants. No more free movement after Brexit.

She’s trying to be exactly the same kind of economic migrant to the NL that she voted to keep out of the U.K. And for some reason doesn’t seem to see the link.

I’m just nodding politely at work but I had to come and vent somewhere.

AIBU to think “you brought this on yourself”?

Even within the EU you shouldn't be able to just rock up and claim benefits. Normally you have 3 months and then you have to register. Expectation is you can support yourself and pay for any social security / insurance - or you leave again. The issue in the UK is that when we had the spurt of EU immigration no-one managed it. ID cards are big part of this - in most of EU you are expected to have one to prove your entitlement to work / claim benefits or healthcare. The UK had no way of easily managing this.

I was so angry for so long about Brexit that I thought I would go mad. Not helped by the fact that some of the people who I knew to have voted for it had access to Irish or other EU passports so voted to deprive me and mine of something that they could still get. I think it’s worth pointing out to her that this is a result of Brexit and she chose it. The bugger is that Remainers have suffered the same losses despite opposing it.

Wow that must be a massive drain on The Netherlands if their healthcare is excellent. I wonder how they afford to pay for all the people who settle to take advantage as it's not a massive country. I was too young in 2016 to vote, but would defo get my dad to move out there for his hip op if it was 10 years ago. He's been waiting 4 months so far. Shame we are not in the EU 😩

😂😂😂

arf. People are racist and they don’t even know it. Here the race being British…

you Know, you can move to another country and work there yourself/mary there/have children there if you want to…whatever stage you are at…just like the ones you are talking about.

Sounds like an apologists excuse for voting the wrong way. 48% of us did know what we were voting to retain. 52% thought they were going to gain something they didn't realise they largely already had. No use apologising now, just please never vote again if you don't understand what you are actually voting for, or against.

Free movement doesn't necessarily mean free healthcare if the country you are moving to doesn't have universal free healthcare. We don't know what condition the child has, but basic healthcare insurance is mandatory for adults in the Netherlands. According to this article, a basic plan for Dutch citizens (and residents) costs an average of 158 euros per month, plus a yearly excess payment, plus optional supplementary insurance. Presumably those on low incomes are covered with government help, nevertheless;

Spokesperson Tijmen Hendriksen [from the Patients’ Federation Netherlands] noted that one in five Dutch residents now avoids seeking necessary care due to financial constraints.

“People delay care, skip medications, or avoid the dentist, which often leads to more severe health issues and higher costs later,”

https://nltimes.nl/2024/12/23/rising-health-insurance-costs-drive-dutch-higher-deductibles

Of course you can’t! It’s way way harder than that 🙄🤦‍♀️

the major issue the UK had with free movement is that you don't have 2 vital things most EU countries have: a) ID cards b) registration of residence

for me, b is the real problem here because it means you have no idea who lives where, and no idea if they are entitled to EU rules or not. The EU rules were that if a person moves to a 2nd country that country could decide that if they weren't working, they could be sent back to where they came from (or to somewhere else). But essentially, once you were there, working, paying tax and the local equivalent of NI (and/or the health insurance) you were fine.

Germany, where i have been for most of my life, had this. When i first started working i had to sign a document to get my residence permit that showed i understood and agreed with that. At some point the EU rules changed so that EU citizens had to be treated the same way as citizens of the country - but the 3 month rule still applied.

As a hardcore remainer / rejoinder, I’m delighted they have had their plans scuppered by the very thing they voted for. Brexit has caused so much destruction of people’s plans, I’m pleased it’s negatively impacting those who wanted it.

Brefugee
The EU rules were that if a person moves to a 2nd country that country could decide that if they weren't working, they could be sent back to where they came from (or to somewhere else)

They can ask you to leave - it's much more difficult to get rid of you if you don't want to leave;

In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/inactive-citizens/index_en.htm

When i first started working i had to sign a document to get my residence permit that showed i understood and agreed with that. At some point the EU rules changed so that EU citizens had to be treated the same way as citizens of the country - but the 3 month rule still applied.

Under EU rules, 'jobseekers' have at least 6 months to look for work;

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/jobseekers/index_en.htm#just-moved

It's more than that though.

It was a vote that should never have happened. It was a political trick to try and do some point scoring that massively backfired that they then couldn't renege on.

Most people genuinely did NOT know what they were voting for. The propaganda out there was a nightmare to navigate, contradictory at best. No one could be expected to fully understand the implication of either Leave or Remain.

It should have been done as a provisional referendum, and the large numbers of Leave votes should have highlighted that things needed to change in the UK to make being in the EU work for us.

@ZigZagJigsaw even pre-EU days wouldn't guarantee your colleague would have been able to use the medical system in NL. I vaguely remember having to visit a hospital in Austria as a child after an accident and my insurance had to pay a chunk of the bill.

Australia is very strict with immigration and Not taking in people who will cost rather than contribute.
It must be working for them as this has been their policy for a very long time.

Many nations refuse to take on medical and care costs of “immigrants”/non-ciyizens.

UK …. On the other hand… feels that its citizens are happy to pay medical and care costs any & everyone whose feet are on the ground in UK.

YABU for calling this thread “Unintended Consequences”.

Removing freedom of movement between the UK and the EU was a very publicised and intended consequence.

Mad, self-spiting, but definitely intended.

My point exactly…

so maybe as some have succeeded. It could be, I don’t know…let’s say, a good idea to respect their vote. Yes they have more opportunities, coz they made choices that opened them. And like you say. It is hard.

. There wasn’t enough information available. Was it made clear that voting Leave meant shorter holidays abroad? Not being able to easily move to another country? Losing some excellent tradespeople?
BTW I voted Remain.

I certainly wouldn’t nod politely and come here to vent, I’d tell her to her face she’s an idiot.

To be fair, a lot of the Brexit voters thought they were voting for a soft brexit that would leave us with free movement etc…..

Not that was a good idea in the first place either.

I think that was pretty obvious for anyone who had an idea of what free movement meant.

No politician is ever telling voters exactly what the consequences of voting for them mean. You need to read between the lines (like when the Tory were first voted in, it was in the back of ‘benefit scroungers’ but somehow people on benefits didn’t think they would be affected).
You can’t just say ‘but it wasn’t clear’. It was as clear as it is for ANY vote

I think all of that was perfectly clear?

Not having unlimited stays, not having visa free access and some EU citizens woud likely leave.

yes, i know - that was back in the 90s before the rules changed.

It is neither here nor there now, because the UK couldn't ever do that because they had no way of knowing who had arrived from the EU and where they lived.

But you can’t. You can ask to, but the relevant nation’s government can say ‘no’. Before Brexit, you could just up-sticks and go. It really is a tragic loss. And I say that as someone who’s never had even the slightest desire to live anywhere but the U.K.

This is true. It is illegal to not pay a minimum contribution for health insurance, which really only covers the basics and there is a co pay of around €400. Added to that, the tax rate here starts at 35% on any money earned and rises to 50% at €77,000.

In addition, it would be extremely difficult for a non-Dutch speaking fifteen year old to attend a state school and international schools are expensive! Home education is technically illegal, although there are some exceptions. And it is expensive here! So, it is definitely not the utopia your colleague thinks it is!

Really? What do you think 'freedom of movement' meant?

Stupid choices win stupid prizes.