New view on mental health

[Finallylostit]

Read this today. This Doctor is refreshingly honest and a thought provoking perspective on the explosion in the mental health industry

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14576559/REAL-cause-explosion-autism-depression-psychiatrist-DR-ALISTAIR-SANTHOUSE.html

This is interesting.

Of course there are autistic people who are also learning disabled.

But there was a move away from functioning labels because it was harmful to autistic people without learning disabilities. High functioning was seen as 'mild'. When it is anything but mild.

My so called 'high functioning' young adult couldn't function when his needs weren't met. He couldn't attend school, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep and couldn't maintain normal hygiene standards. He had a period when he was quite prepared to kill himself rather than be faced with day to day living.

Now that's not the same as the autistic people with severe learning disabilities but he was non - verbal and unable to function on a very basic level for a number of years.

Now he has an understanding of his neurodiversity he can cope better. He is at a prestigious university BUT he can't cope with a lot of things than neurotypical people can cope with. Move those supports and he's back to the non verbal in his bedroom trumatised young person.

It's at our peril that we ignore this reality.

you don't ignore the reality of their needs. It is your duty to provide for their needs no matter how they manifest.

@Beautifulweedsi completely agree with you.
My DD has SEN. No one knows what the cause is. Maybe ADHD, mild learning disability, dyspraxia or a mixture of all or none. Basically she is three years behind academically and emotionally. Lovely and sweet though, not any behavioural issues.
We did not get an NHS diagnosis, not enough traits, but definitely an ND presentation, the nurse specialist said. She spent two hours with me and four hours assessing my DD at school. It was THOROUGH!
So many people were telling me to go private to get a DX. Despite the fact that I was completely happy with the results of the assessment. She doesn’t have autism, it’s simple. There are traits, but there has to be a cut off somewhere.

We have an EHCP and I completely identify with you about people wanting one. I mean it is, I guess, an advantage in terms of secondary schools or additional teaching and support. But even with it, we are probably looking at my DD leaving with minimal qualifications. If she gets the requirements to do childcare at college I will be a very happy parent. So excuse me if I don’t feel sympathy for these parents with child genesis’s, who maybe struggle with their socks, who don’t get an EHCP.
We have to protect these resources for the kids who really need them. My other child is NT and his life is just so much easier. I have no idea why some parents want a diagnosis for their child, but there are definitely incentives (DLA, choice of school, limited capability for work etc.

Well, exactly, but this is what neither OP nor certain other posters don't want to understand.

Are all these diagnoses a problem for the rest of society. Not every diagnosis results in expensive medication. Perhaps,if this doctor is concerned about over diagnosis, he needs to contact the Siciety of Psychiatrists and have it out with them -the fact that they are diagnosing so many ‘normal’ people because that seems to be his beef.

I don't understand your post. Of course 'I' don't ignore the reality of their needs.

I'm talking about on a societal level. It's scary that we appear to have a government that is determined to undermine these needs.

As a society we need to be aware that our education and health systems (in particular) fail neurodiverse young people. It is a failure of society to transfer that burden entirely on to parents. Many of these young people are absolutely capable of being a benefit to society if they are not failed at the outset.

It's a fools game isn't it? To deny the reality of many bright and creative neurodiverse minds to virtue signal to those who want to underplay the reality of people who don't fit the mould.

(and I am sorry if I have misinterpreted your post, it's late and I'm tired).

Thanks for this. Am the mum of two ASD (+ADHD) kids, half sister to three siblings with it, and (acc to my DCs clinicians observations during their assessments) highly likely to be on the spectrum myself. No single one of us presents the same, so support for parents (let alone teachers/TAs) is often deeply inadequate. Funnily enough I am no looking at parenting ASD for my PhD. It’s in creative writing and looks at the [mis]representation of ASD and the under-representation of explicitly mother/autistic child relationships in [crime] fiction.

This course will be really helpful as a reference!

This is how we are. My child was on the SEN register and taken off , of it completely. Bright, concentrated, polite, angelic, just had few manifestations which were resolved very quickly with one page of advice, applied by the SENCO ...the amount of suggestions for various diagnoses was astonishing and the SENCO was shocked, professionals just giving suggestions because apparently they have to cover their backs <???> and put something in the report. Our child can study anything she wants. What was all that about.

One person told me: It is not about the label, but about the money which the school gets. I told her that the school is going to get their money not through labelling my child with things she has not got. There are all sides to this coin. Let the money goes to the ones who need it. I pay for whatever is needed here.

I agree. My DS was delayed in hitting his milestones and in his speech when he was younger and autism was suggested for him (and me!) and we got so far down the pathway until he hit 3, caught up a little and no longer fit the criteria. At the time, I researched everything like mad and drove myself crazy as nearly every normal toddler behaviour could also be shown as an autistic trait.

In the US they like to diagnose kids so so young and it really irritates me to see adults doing TikTok reels about how parents shouldn’t be worried about their autistic kids as they were diagnosed at 18 months and here they are now, living their completely normal lives and I think it’s probably because they are not actually autistic and they were literally just behaving as an 18 month old toddler when diagnosed.

Am not sure this is fair. My DD is probably what you might consider a ‘child genius’ and will be going to university in Sept with top grades in an access course. However, she is two years behind her peers at 20 and her arms are seriously fucked up with scars from self harming and suicide attempts (the ones that didn’t involve paracetamol overdoses). She doesn’t eat unless prompted, has to be rescued on trips out with friends when overwhelm leads to a meltdown (meaning I’ve had to travel half way across the country at 2 in the morning to collect from a school trip), and yes, she can’t wear socks because the toe seams irritate her. But she’s currently likely to get a degree, so her suffering is less significant than a child who won’t?

I am sorry but the hierarchy of need is far more nuanced than whether your child will get qualifications or not - in 10 years time the child who goes on to get a childcare qualification might actually be in employment and ‘functioning’ socially; my child, even if she gets a degree, may never hold down even a part time job or live independently. Neither of us know yet, do we?

Let’s try not to piss all over other people’s children’s needs under some warped idea of what constitutes worthiness of compassion please.

@Nosleepforthismumthats a really good point.

@CautiousLurker01but those are mental health issues. An EHCP wouldn’t solve them completely. As you know, mental health issues are much more prevalent in autistic and ADHD people but I’m yet to understand how diagnosis ‘solves’ these issues. It’s like EBSA; it is a mental health problem, not an educational one. Almost all those children struggle with anxiety and sensory issues, or problems relating to others. I fail to see how an EHCP fixes this. If an adult was struggling going into work, we would do a few things to adapt the workplace but the majority of the work would be done with the individual to build resilience and coping strategies.
If someone presents to A&E after overdosing, how relevant and important is it to diagnose them there? Would that help? No. It would be so much better to do the usual crisis intervention and then work up to that person being in a place to start looking at an assessment.
But that seems to be what we’re doing with kids, diagnosing them when they’re in crisis. Yes it’s a factor but their MH is the crucial part.

Suggesting possibilities is not the same as diagnosing.

Schools don’t get any additional funding unless the child has provision through an ehcp and even then it has to be a high level.

Support is also needs led not diagnosis led so whoever told you that was wrong on many levels.

An EHCP issued young will come with early intervention and support which is known to hugely improve outcomes.

So if a child’s mental heath is so poor that they can’t be educated in a formal setting what should happen?

for my child that’s where the echp came in to provide the education he couldn’t access in school .

This happened to me. I saw a psychiatrist as a teen then was in and out the mental health system for years. Labelled EUPD. I never really agreed with it. I did group therapy with people I could not relate to at all. Later diagnosed with autism but my EUPD label is still on my notes. I know it is possible to have both anyway. I am also diagnosed with major depressive disorder and generalised anxiety disorder. One therapist was on about CPTSD from years of bullying throughout my education.

Girls also present differently to boys. If I has been diagnosed as a little girl then my life would probably be a lot better now.

Unless you are her clinician, you are in no position to decide which behaviours are due to autism and which are due to co-morbidly occurring MH issues, are you?

Her inability to remember to eat, to remember to shop for food, to regulate her sleep and mood are all typical autism and ADHD issues? You are assuming, as many of the attached articles above highlight people do, that she has MH issues (EuPD, Bipolar). You are labelling them as ‘MH’ issues when they may simply have been the result of un/late diagnosed, unregulated, unsupported and unmedicated ASD/ADHD - which is, in fact, what they were. This is why women and girls have for decades, possibly centuries, been labelled mad/neurotic/bipolar… because their ASD/ADHD has been dismissed by people like you - who really should now better in 2025.

Now she has been diagnosed in the last year, has counselling, accepts she will need medication for the rest of her life, her autism and ADHD has become more manageable. Completing a course, going to university (but possibly living at home or within reach of home) are possible.

Had she been given an ECHP back in secondary school, had CAMHS agreed to have her assessed rather than leave her languishing on the waiting list for 5 years and shoving ineffective anti-depressants/anti-psychotic drugs down her (because she was not depressed or psychotic, she was in distress due to her undiagnosed ASD/ADHD), then she might have had timely access to the therapy, support and the right medication a decade earlier. But, no, feel free to simply dismiss her as mentally ill rather than autistic with needs that were poorly met by a broken system. Shameful.

@CautiousLurker01what I’m saying is that we are (all of us) complex mixtures of trauma, traits and different strategies for coping.
Too many people out there put too much hope into a diagnosis when we know that autistic people still self harm, autistic people still drop out of education or stop leaving the house altogether. In quite extreme situations, it feels that the diagnosis doesn’t actually help that person, it doesn’t mitigate all risks.
And you obviously know that, but I think many place so much on that diagnosis. It’s not the cure, and the person would arguably have to be in a place to be able to work on themselves in a neuroaffirmative way.
It’s too simplistic to say that diagnosis aren’t helpful, certainly they can help some, but for those in crisis, I don’t know how easy it is to see that your brain working differently is a good thing. It certainly doesn’t mean life is easy.
Children with EHCP’s still find they can’t face school. Parents still struggle to find schools that can meet need, or they love a school but their child is still unable to access. Part of me feels the emphasis is on the wrong thing. More mental health support, more downtime, less pressure, less curriculum, more flexibility. That would hugely help all children rather than a diagnosis led system which only helps the select few.

That still doesn't disprove my point. I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter's difficulties, but it's clear that for many people their symptoms of autism don't interfere with their quality of life to the same extent.

I even have people with diagnosed autism in my family. Sure, they struggle with feeling overwhelmed and dealing with certain situations, but that's the extent of it. Likewise, I've had students where the kids are doing well and thriving (and parents completely agree btw).

Then there are kids that start school and are still in nappies, can't communicate, can't interact, have daily meltdowns. It's tragic and my heart breaks for them and the parents.

The only logical thing to conclude is that some forms of autism are milder and some more severe.

Oh I read this authors first book - it was great. It explored functional disorders.

No. You’ve missed the point.

She cannot function independently and requires a high level of support. You just don’t see her needs so assume they don’t exist. It’s a huge mistake to make a snap judgement. There is no condition on the planet that doesn’t come with a degree of varying need and impact.

There is no mild autism. It needs to have a significant impact on life for diagnosis.

It's not so mild as to be non-existent, but some people most certainly have a milder form than others. Some will never lead independent lives. Frankly, it's insulting to them and their family to insist otherwise.