To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

OK, make them do the equivalent number of hours working at NMW rates for the benefits they receive. So then they ARE being paid for the work they do in the form of their benefits. Simples.

I did not say anything about being demeaned,
You seem happy with benefit claimants wearing hi-viz in public where everyone can see they are benefit claimants. You want them to be shamed. It is nothing about the work that might need doing in the community. You just want it to be a punitive thing.

If the work needs doing, then give them a job. A proper one. Not workfare under a new name.

Again, we have tried this. It failed because companies offering the work stopped employing people for the roles and used job seekers paid for by the government instead.

If there is work that needs to be done, companies need to employ people to do it, not use job seekers as free labour.

Give them a proper job then. That comes with a contract, fixed hours, sick pay, holiday, pension etc. If the work is there, then make it a proper role.

Yep! We’ve had first year of primary children not potty trained because the parent “tried but it was too hard,” not able to dress themselves, feed themselves with cutlery, etc. Stereotypical it may be and it might not be the case everywhere but 99% of such children in my setting come from non working homes.

Use councils for it - lots of "local" works needs doing. Then there's no "profit motive" involved.

Yes, I agree, councils should do it and other public sector roles, but the entire cost inc employers NIC, pensions, sick pay, etc., to be taken out of the benefits they receive so it doesn't cost the taxpayer any more. If that means only say 10 hours work per week, then so be it. Something productive is better than nothing and will also give valuable work experience and get people back into the habit of working which will also help general wellbeing etc.

The council have their own workers for stuff like that.

Your eyes don't speak for my experience.
Can you tell me why you are so judgemental?

So you want sick pay, NI etc to be deducted from the benefits? Do you know how much a job seeker gets? It is about £100 per week.
How many hours on the equivalent of NMW do you think they would be working after all that is taken off?
If there is work that needs doing, employ them properly.

No, you misunderstand. Work backwards like agency/umbrella workers have to do. You reduce the number of hours worked to factor in all the employer costs, so it may end up a pretty low number of hours, but it's still something.

It's not just Jobseekers allowance though is it? There are all the other benefits, such as housing, free prescriptions, council tax reductions, free dental treatment, and the myriad of other benefits for other reasons.

But even say 5 hours per week working would help get some value for the taxpayer and may encourage benefit claimants into proper jobs. I've never been talking full time work. Even small amounts of work will encourage good workplace habits, and improve personal wellbeing.

Councils have no money to employ people properly but the work still needs doing.

The council would have to employ someone to supervise the benefit claimants.
They will probably end up sacking people and taking them back as free labour.

Anyway, none of this is a thing anyway.

No, because entire job markets shouldn’t only be open to people on benefits. They should pitch in and do what’s needed to earn their benefits. The benefits are their pay. If they want a better job without a high vis they can compete for one with everyone else.

Why should the tax payer fund your "nice thing"?

It really doesn't matter as such a scheme does not exist anyway. And it wont reduce the benefits bill.

I never understand how pretty much everywhere needs more care workers, and it does not seem to require any experience, yet we have unemployed people.

If the answer is that care employers are not being reasonable (offering zero hours, not paying for transit time etc) surely there has to be away for councils/government to address this.

Care work requires a specific sort of person with the right aptitude. It should never be seen as job anyone should be have to do. That is not fair on the people that need care.

Here we go again…

You really think carers WANT to work? All of them, feel it’s their life’s calling? How patronising and yet again, another excuse as to why ‘I can’t possibly do… but other people can…’

I know many carers, my mum included. They don’t hate their jobs, they do their best, but neither is it their dream and the ‘specific sort of person’ is a nonsense. All it takes is a person with fairly good people skills, a strong work ethic and common sense.

The excuses are exhausting at this point.

The only thing that will reduce it is cutting benefits and leaving people to sink or swim (not people with tangible life limiting conditions like Downs, but people with the sort of anxiety which means working is the ONLY thing they cannot do - apparently).

Nothing else will help as the excuses will be endless. Only necessity will solve the problem.

Not everyone has good people skills. Forcing those sort of people into care work would be detrimental for everyone.

It’s work. Crack on with it.

I'm not sure I'd want my elderly or vulnerable relatives cared for by people who were crap at the job and hated it, though, @Wildflowers99. I was a nurse, and caring is a hard enough job if you love it, but if you really aren't cut out for it, surely that's a recipe for being an employee who gives very substandard care.

I've worked in care with people forced into it by UC. I'd not trust them to care for a rat, much less my family. This type of thinking is exactly how we end up with abusive and/or negligent carers.

Yes it makes no sense a lot of the time if someone usually a single parent can claim full pip for mental health /fibro another invisible disability and has even a single child on DLA, because how can they support themselves let alone another living being who is also severely disabled

I don't think many people can live on benefits forever for fun. Do you know how many hoops and jumps and assessments people have to go through to qualify for benefits for a year? Probably more than people in Cty of London do to get their guaranteed £1m bonus for causing extra recessions than normal. And then the constant decision and harassment from right wing newspapers that you are addicted to reading. Oh and the government deciding to cut it all the time and say people in pain constantly can work full time in some crap job for minimum wage. All the while ignoring the £50-£100m that is avoided in tax every year in this country by businesses and rich people. Attack someone with actual privilege for once. Just drop it and move on.