To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

I think some people are stuck in the days of walking round places and handing your CV in, and getting a job two days later.
It is so much more complicated now.

I failed the online tests for a job at Primark. Ran my own shop for 7 years after that, until online shopping priced me out as a sole trader. (Complicated back story).

Was rejected from a health insurance telesales job for not being "money hungry" enough - direct quote from actual interview feedback - mass open interview though. Apparently it is not de rigeur to want to do a good, diligent job and see the money come in as a natural consequence. Who knew ?

Not stuck in the days at all...from the scaffolding up high as I was painting next door's house... I nearly asked the very young van driving postie how he managed to pass the online Royal Mail driving test.

Because when I drive a vehicle I don't use a computer screen and a mouse, unlike the online Post Office Delivery Driver Test which I also failed.

At the moment, I am still technically on holiday, rather than unemployed, so I'm sticking with applying for jobs within my own industry, at the moment, but I am getting concerned.

My last contract was a year-long. This time last year, when I was applying for jobs, things didn't seem anywhere near as bleak as they are now. They weren't easy, but they weren't as bad as they are now. Most roles in my industry have thousands of applicants, if not more. The pay is less than it was last year, and they are asking for more in return.

I have a technical test to complete for a skills BootCamp (you know the things the government funds to help new job seekers into roles where there is a shortage of talent? Even they have multiple interview stages and aptitude tests now). If I don't get onto that, I'll start applying for roles outside of my industry (which will mean a pay cut and more reliance on UC to top up my income).

@Frequency

Very best of luck x

I have no idea where to start with everything as I'm likely to be providing care for my frail elderly father alongside whatever care package can be provided once he's been discharged from hospital. And my get up and go has kind of got up and went 🙃 I'm not happy to remain on benefits in the slightest but my options are limited. Having been self employed for 7 years, I'm less likely to be seen as a team player at my age apparently, and my experience must be tailored so I don't appear to have ideas above my station. I was told that about 14 years ago last time I was in the job market at the ancient age of 42. At 56 I feel rather obsolete.

@MistressoftheDarkSide If you have any interest in Tech the skills bootcamps sound promising (assuming you manage to get on one).

They are 3-month intensive courses and also offer support after the course ends with CV writing, interviewing, and putting you in touch with employers.

I'm looking at a cyber security one, as even if I don't get a job out of it, it will help me in my degree, and they pay for you to sit a certification that seems to be in demand at the moment.

People complaining there are too many of these posts but it’s the same people constantly engaging with them with their virtue signalling crap.

How are you on holiday if you have no job and pay? Genuine question. I’d be shitting myself.
The last 2 pages do seem to be a bit of a pity fest/talking each other out of even trying. I’ve worked in 3 sectors in the last decade and
never came across the recruitment process described here.

I bet if people were told that they had to do community service (like you do after committing a crime), in order to qualify for their UC, they’d be accepting any job going.

My step-daughter won’t work and it winds me up so badly. She uses her son as an excuse but he’s 5 and goes to school. Everyone else manages with breakfast clubs etc but she’d rather sit at home watching Loose Women and doing her nails.

Work can bring so much more than income too. I’d go crazy in the house all day.
Even though I’m in my 40s me claiming just wouldn’t ride with my extended family who have worked hard despite cancer, depression, infant children to name a few.

Really? There must other reasons because they don't allow that. Is she a carer? Does her partner earn above a certain amount? Should say we don't have or have very limited after-school care. I can believe parents who say that.

Being out of work long term is hugely harmful for children - I have no idea how Labour MPs aren't up in arms about it. Working in a school it is tragic how many children are being let down by parents who have become deskilled by not working.

The difference between children who went to our free school breakfast club (parents who needed to get up early for work) and those that didn't was massive. Children who turned up for breakfast club were better academically, happier, better attendance, far better social skills, age appropriate behaviour, never in trouble (or very minor!).

There was also a huge contingent of parents on long term benefits. By being out of work you miss out on essential skills needed to be a decent parent: time keeping, communication, problem solving, self regulation.

Everyone should contribute, even if it's a community service for benefits arrangement.

When it comes to social housing the tenancy agreements handed out years ago have fucked It for everyone currently needing help. My husband’s parents for example were given a four bedroom council house in 1984.. Life long tenancy. It’s now just the two of them living in a house that was supposed to be for a family! Kent country side home that costs them £105 per week! There is literally an entire housing estate filled with couples who’s children grew up and moved out years ago. Add to that the people like my dad’s partner who brought her council home in the 90s and sold it last year making a half a million pound profit! It’s shameful that the government allowed this, it’s not what they were built for.

Oh do bore off.

If you're already working, you're in a better position to cross sectors etc and are up to date.

The replies you're talking about also encompass someone doing everything they can to get into work again and encouraging someone else to do so.

The point that is being made is that someone who has fallen into "the benefits trap" for whatever reason, is a less desirable employee if their sector has moved on, or become obsolete due to the rapid progress being made on the technical front, and not everyone has the opportunity or funding to blithely unskilled, nor perhaps the confidence to "put themselves out there" particularly if they've suffered multiple unfortunate events like bereavement, sickness, disability etc.

It's not a pity fest, it's people talking about their experiences in a realistic manner. Just because it hasn't happened to you, it doesn't mean it can't possibly happen.

Your argument is going to be that only slightly over one million people think it’s ok to be unemployed?!

There’s the mentality that people take issue with right there.

I also work in a school in an area of heavy unemployment and I 100% agree. The behaviour, academic achievement levels and general motivation is significantly better in those who come from working families. Even the timekeeping and attendance itself is better, presumably because the family have to follow a routine to get to work. The number of kids who drift in at 10 and 10:30 and tell me “Mum was too tired today” or “Dad just didn’t get up” is mental.

Yes it’s not often discussed how benefits MAKE people unemployable. In my line of work, I see benefit claimants outlining their financial circumstances (briefly, not in detail) many times a day. The story is always the same. The person in question left school, worked briefly before going onto benefits. The benefits have then resulted in a life where routine and structure slowly degrade to the point lying in bed all day, smoking/vaping and eating junk, the norm. Unsurprisingly they then develop a mental or physical health problem (nearly always anxiety, depression, neurodiversity or fibromyalgia) and go on disability benefits. By this point they’re unemployable - they’ve spent years addling their brains and ingraining behaviours which are fundamentally at odds with working. Nobody is going to take them on. As they continue the abuse themselves and evade any kind of responsibility, the more diagnoses and benefits they collect, and the more expensive ‘support services’ have to get involved (which make no difference anyway).

What would’ve happened if they’d been denied benefits at 20, do you think?

Being on UC is not a crime though.
Why shame people people on benefits by making them do work in hi-vi vests where everyone can see they are a claimant.
If you are going to make them do "work" then pay them a proper wage for it.

You think work is ‘shaming’ and that’s part of the problem here - the entitlement is off the scale.

No I don't.
I think community service should be for people who have committed a crime.
Being on benefits is not a crime. If someone is doing work, then pay them properly with all the perk that paid employment brings. Otherwise you are just using the claimants as free labour.

Most people who do voluntary work are not criminals.

That is because they are doing voluntary work. Clue is in the name.
Community service is not voluntary. It is a punishment.

We've already tried workfare. It failed because companies like Poundland and Tesco et al took the piss and used jobseekers as free labour for menial tasks instead of paying someone an actual living wage.

If there is work to be done, pay someone to do it.

@adviceneeded1990 I had holidays to use, so when my contract ended, I used them all. I am still getting a wage, I'm getting holiday pay, hence the fact that I am on holiday. The difference is that there is no role for me to return to once the holiday ends.

As for "shitting myself" I can see why that mindset would be tempting for some people, I prefer to try not to waste energy on things that I have no control over. Instead of shitting myself I am trying to be proactive in upskilling, renewing out of date certifications etc. Panic won't help; new skills will.

Sorry but people who work do ‘demeaning’ things all the time. Cleaning toilets. Waiting on unbearable people. Why should people be exempt from ‘feeling demeaned’ as they get their free money (paid for by said toilet cleaners?). You can’t be a choosy beggar

You are right - being on benefits isn't a crime. Money also doesn't grow on trees and the skills you get from work are needed to be a functional adult and parent.

I've seen too many children turn up to school dirty, with constant nits, massively behind verbally and emotionally because the parents have become so deskilled by not working long term. That's why teaching staff are being asked multiple times a year to potty train children! It's cruel not expecting some form of contribution as work hugely improves people's lives.