Nanny leaving

[Countessofgranthamm]

Nanny leaving who has been with us 3 and a half years. Is it unreasonable to just give gift and a card or is it customary to give money too? We are moving overseas for DP work so I suppose we are technically the ones leaving! She is the first nanny we have had to unsure of the customs?

Much like carers legally she is an employee if her working structure is such and she doesn't have any other clients and you are able to direct her what to do with your children etc. Just because you both call her self employed she most likely would not pass the self employed test.

The difference is whether the work is done in the person's own home or an employer's home. For the purposes of being fit to be registered as a person the same criteria applies. A person registered as fit to be a child minder is still registered if she works in some one else's home, but she is then an employee.

Oh the big test is can she send someone else in to work for her? If another nanny turns up on occassion because she is busy whatever then yes she is self employed if not then from HMRC point of view she is an employee of yours.

Suppose it depends how close you were to her - If I was a nanny of 3 years and the family just gave me a token gift I'd be sad - I'd buy her a piece of jewellery or gift card, or hamper of goodies. (but that's just me)

I'd give 4 weeks' wages as a redundancy payment. Plus a personal gift.

I agree with this.

And I think the points about realising the departure of a nanny impacts children differently from their parents is not overstated.

That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen frequently, or even that the children can’t withstand it. Of course it does, and of course they can.

However, it is a bit flippant to just say “ they aren’t her children,” as if that’s the whole picture.

My Dc grew up “on the nanny circuit” and there were lots ( and lots!) of hiccups with behaviour and tricky emotions round nannies leaving/ changing. The children who suffered most were from the families who didn’t acknowledge the fact that, regardless of how the adults conceptualise the relationship, children spend time forming a bond. One mum, in particular, would simply not accept it but everyone dealing with him at nursery and on play dates could see it plainly.

I was suggesting a meaningful lasting gift. Not that Tiffany is the only option. I’m sure the OP can come up with something that suits her budget but I don’t think a bottle of fizz and a bunch of flowers is enough to express your gratitude for someone who has cared for your children under your roof for over 3 years.

Huge leap to infer everything that everyone has on this thread because OP mentioned she is not an PAYE employee.

Why does OP need to give any 'justification' when asking about a parting gift of thanks?

Another huge (and really strange leap). It's a thread title, that's all.

That's not the requirement. It's whether the replacement can be accepted or rejected. Accepted means the nanny is allowed to send a suitable replacement should they be not be able to turn up for work ('suitable' can be DBS checked, clean driving licence, with qualification etc) - importantly with no repercussions for her if she did this/asked to do this. The family saying 'thanks but no thanks', is not a rejection, it's just saying it's not needed and not taking the matter further. Rejecting means that the nanny is not allowed to do this and there would be repercussions.

Has the OP been back ...?

Of course not, it's not going her way.

Not for them to decide. Those practices were outlawed years ago.

No because they can choose not to work that shift.

Your all day every day nanny can’t.

I’ve worked many years as a Nanny and at a Nanny Agency.

In 99% of scenarios it is not legal for a Nanny to be self-employed. They can only be self-employed if they set their own hours, hourly rate, can send a different person to complete their duties if they so wish, they have total autonomy of their duties/activities etc. Or they work for more than one family on an ad-hoc basis.

I would absolutely follow the law to letter regarding redundancy.

I do hope you paid her 5.6 weeks per year paid holiday. She was also entitled to a pension and a monthly pay slip. Surely you did a quick google search to find this all out before hiring her???

And pray to God that no-one ever reports you for not treating your employee correctly. If HMRC ever get on to this - they will come after YOU for 3 years of non-payment of tax and NI for your undeclared employee.

@Countessofgranthamm is never coming back after all this, is she?

She wishes she'd just bought the prosecco and a bunch of daffs.....

What do you give her?

Some respect for starters….

It was explained you can be registered as a childminder and work in someone else's home - that way the 30 hours free funding can be claimed along with the tax free childcare,

A nanny can be registered, doesn't have to do the statutory early years education inspection with ofsted, doesn't have to have the property inspected by ofsted - but can only have the tax free child care - not the free funding.

You can be a childminder at a different place to your home, but the premises need to be inspected.

I will leave it there as I'm begins to think its you that doesn't have a clue what you're talking about, not the early years department

A nanny who is a permanent employee and has been employed more than two years is legally entitled to redundancy pay. It's that simple. You choose to end the employment contract, you pay redundancy. Nannies are employees; they depend on their wages and have all the normal legal rights of employees, as they should.

You don't have to be a "tax or legal expert" to know that very, very, very few nanny arrangements meet the HMRC criteria for self-employment, and that if a nanny is legally classed as an employee, the employer must pay the appropriate tax and NI, offer the minimum legally required benefits, and comply with employment law.

Digressing here, but I've always thought this was the stupidest test of self employment. I've worked with many contractors, I select them on recommendations, interview, portfolio. I'm definitely not OK with them sending in a replacement, I chose them because I trust them to do the work.

@thehorsesareallidiots no it's actually not that simple, the contract may include a mobility clause that requires the nanny to work at an alternative location if the employer moves, for example, which would not entitle the nanny to redundancy pay if she refuses, or it may be a fixed term contract, which if drafted properly would also not entitle the nanny to redundancy pay even if it is for over two years or has been rolled several times. Not suggesting this is the case in the OP's situation but then again she didn't ask for advice on the legalities of her nanny's employment.

I never understand how so many parents don't seem to understand this. Some kids have been in the care of a nanny from birth and when she leaves it's almost like they've lost their mother. Very cruel and selfish in my opinion.

Just explaining why people have made assumptions based on the very gappy information given and its tone. If you start a thread like this I think it is reasonable to expect more detail or have assumptions made based on the missing details. Obviously OP can return and confirm how the nanny isn't an employee - so hasn't had required hours for years etc etc. So far all that has been offered is PAYE. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that is that basis of the none employee status since that is the only justification offered. Lots of out dated recommendations to buy her flowers and she isn't an employee. If there is an employer relationship the posts have done OP a massive favour in time for a redundancy settlement to be made.

Well then in the contract define the services and have approval of the reasonable replacement. It doesn't mean anyone can be sent to do the task.