Nanny leaving

[Countessofgranthamm]

Nanny leaving who has been with us 3 and a half years. Is it unreasonable to just give gift and a card or is it customary to give money too? We are moving overseas for DP work so I suppose we are technically the ones leaving! She is the first nanny we have had to unsure of the customs?

Oh, the lady from child services said that registering as a nanny that the early years stuff didn't need to be done with ofsted as it is with a childminder - the first aid etc

Is this not the case?

the information I thought was telling was the idea that not paying PAYE is the definition of an employee. No other justification was provided for the none employee relationship which is a very complex question given recent case law. The tone was very much its been 3.5 years and its over now, what sort of parting gift is suitable@Didimum

IHaveAlwaysLivedintheCastle

looking back at the notes I made and the website - if it was registering as a nanny then the house checks and early years educational bits didn't need to be done - but as a childminder the house where the child was looked after needed to be checked and ofsted check the early years learning. So if the child was looked after in their own home that house needed to be checked.

It seems very different information on mumsnet than from the information given to me by the county council early years.

That's because it's illegal lol

definitely as everyone else is saying redundancy pay and a card to make her feel like she was appreciated … confused on the title though as the nanny isnt leaving?

This is such nonsense. Having had a few nannies over the years, unfortunately it is common from either side to need to move on / change arrangements etc. Children are very adaptable and although they may be upset they’re leaving, don’t confuse it with any other sort of familial relationship. Also, how do you know how much of the week the nanny has been with them? Perhaps she only does 3 days, or a few hours after school? Do you equate the same concern to form teachers at school?

Yes that house would be checked. Nannies are often Ofsted Registered because of the small financial benefits. There are 2 aspects to registration- the fitness of the person, which applies to the person. And the premises.

A gift and card from the children, plus a healthy cash bonus (on top of any redundancy/employee obligations you have).

The lady from child care services sounds as if she doesn't know what she's talking about. The link is correct

That’s correct. There are absolutely no business-like benefits given to families for employing a Nanny. As someone who has done so for the last few years, it’s incredibly expensive to do so, when you factor in PAYE/NI/Pension/sick pay/holiday pay/presents.

Nanny employers are also specifically excluded by HMRC from the NI allowance that employers get, which would have helped reduce the costs.

While I’m very fortunate to be able to (just about) afford it, it’s a necessity for me as I’m a single parent with primary aged DC, one of whom has significant additional needs, and I wouldn’t have been able to work without employing our Nanny.

I think to show you are reasonable you should pay redundancy. As you have liked her and are cancelling her an extra cash gift etc would be the right thing to do. You sound as though you will try and get away with it .To me you sound mean. I am glad I am not your Nanny .It just shows wealthy people do not like paying out. I hope you have given enough notice. Oh no you are so entitled I expect you haven't.

So to register as a nanny with ofsted you need to do all the same things as if you were registering as a childminder?

would you mind just letting me know what the requirements are?

https://www.nannypaye.co.uk/help-centre/advice-for-employers/tax-free-childcare#:~:text=Tax%2DFree%20Childcare%20enables%20working,the%20government%20paying%20money%20in.

your link is about child free tax care not ofsted

It's none of your business how/if she declares her earnings. You just make sure you do the right thing. You sound like you're trying to get out of doing the proper thing. She's lost her job after being over 3 years with you. It may take her months to get another one.

I'd give her couple of months pay. Flowers and get kids to make her cards. A glowing reference of course, with a contact phone number so it can be checked. Nice to be nice.

As others have said you should definitely pay her some redundancy, if not arrange a new job for her if you can? The redundancy pay is probably gonna be a lot easier, unless you're short on cash? But considering you have a nanny in the first place I doubt that's likely lol.

From the link.

Your nanny must be registered or approved by the childcare regulator. In England this means that your nanny must be registered with Ofsted (we have a guide available to assist your nanny with this process)

even the council website has that there are differences between registering as a nanny with ofsted and registering as a childminder - ive been back and double checked

Register as a childminder with Ofsted
There are two Ofsted registers - the Early Years Register and the Childcare Register.
You should join the Early Years Register if you’re caring for children aged from birth to 31 August after their fifth birthday. You will need to meet all the safeguarding and welfare and the learning and development requirements of the statutory requirements for the early years foundation stage.
Once you have joined the Childcare Register, you must meet the register requirements.
To register as a childminder with Ofsted you will need:

• an enhanced check with barred lists for home based workers from the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS)
• first aid training for the age group you will look after
• a health declaration booklet
• contact details for 2 references
• a certificate of good character from an embassy - if you’ve lived abroad in the past 5 years

Register as a nanny
You can register with Ofsted as a nanny or au pair to look after children in their own home.
A nanny can look after children from 1 or 2 families at the same time.
If you want to look after children from more than 2 families at the same time in their home, you’ll need to register as a childminder instead.
What you’ll need
You will need:
first aid training
childcare training - speak to your local council
public liability insurance
a certificate of good character from an embassy - if you’ve lived abroad in the past 5 years
You will also need an enhanced check from the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS). Depending on where you live, you’ll need either:
an enhanced check with barred lists for home-based workers, if you live in the home where you work
an enhanced check with barred lists, if you do not live in the home where you work

for the later the list is different form the former

statutory requirement for early years foundation stage

I wanted to double check, I will go with the lady from early years and her information and the website

She is either an employee or a self-employed person who issues an invoice each month for the work she does. Which one? I expect it is neither so I would be more concerned about any money you owe for tax, NI, pension, holiday pay and any sick pay.

If she only works for you, you could be in deep doo-doo with HMRC.

Follow the questions on the HMRC employment status checker and see what the outcome is.

Chances are she should have been classed as an employee. Given you're leaving the country, I'd suggest a nice, decent leaving gift and hope she doesn't grass you in to HMRC!

She might have been paying the right tax and NI on her earnings, but if she's classed as an employee you should have been paying employer's NI and pension costs, as well as holiday and sick pay and redundancy also.

If you were found to be liable as an employer, HMRC could potentially deem the amount you've paid to her as her net salary, gross it up and make you pay the PAYE and NI on top of it, no matter what she's declared on her own tax return.

It doesn't matter what OP or the Nanny claim to be - HMRC would look at whether the arrangement constitutes an employer-employee relationship and make the decision for you.

The arrangement has been treated as if the nanny is self-employed, but HMRC would likely look at it differently.

I would also question the Nanny to some extent in this - it's very well known that this type of arrangement changed quite a number of years ago now. This used to be common but the employment rules changed and ended up making families have to register PAYE schemes. I would be suspicious of any Nanny that actively wanted this type of set up.

Why would you forego employment rights if you're entitled to them? My first thought would be that she isn't declaring all her income properly to HMRC.

This. So many employment law and tax experts on here and people judging the OP for daring to say she's the mother of her own children. I've never heard of anyone paying redundancy to a nanny, for sure pay out the notice period if you are letting her go immediately but I wouldn't be paying three months salary on top of that or whatever people are suggesting. Also to those suggesting it's always the 'rich' employer trying to scam the nanny, I've interviewed many nannies over the years and it's often the case they are asking to be treated as self employed (when they clearly should be employed if it's a full time role) or more commonly, for the wages to be split into a declared income for 50% and then the rest paid in cash. They often don't care about pension etc and want a higher net wage. Before you all jump on me, I wouldn't agree to that given the risk to me as employer (not because I believe I should be paying more tax mind you, I find it outrageous that I have to pay tax on my nanny's income from my net income on top of the ridiculous amount I already pay but hey ho that's the law so I comply), and I pay my nanny a very decent wage, 60k pa plus she gets 7 weeks annual leave. Nannies are not hard done by minimum wage employees as many are suggesting. My nanny is amazing but if she left or I needed to move, a nice gift, photo, and flowers would be more than sufficient in my view.

Our Nanny left us when she had her own kids and moved to be nearer her family. She’d been with us for 8 years, from the birth of DD2 - and before that she’d been DD1’s nursery worker, which is how we met her. She was incredibly special to us and we gave her two extra months’ salary as a leaving gift (as well as some more sentimental gifts).

OP sorry but sounds like you have been avoiding tax and pension contributions for 3 years! I would give a generous financial gift and cross my fingers that HMRC don't look into this.

@NetZeroZealot

not everyone can afford to buy Tiffany jewellery for someone whose service they employ. That’s very privileged to assume.