Nanny leaving

[Countessofgranthamm]

Nanny leaving who has been with us 3 and a half years. Is it unreasonable to just give gift and a card or is it customary to give money too? We are moving overseas for DP work so I suppose we are technically the ones leaving! She is the first nanny we have had to unsure of the customs?

So we've flexed from "Nanny leaving us; has been with us for 3 and a half years" to "she's just a small part of after school care".

Are you diminishing the role, or have you been calling your childminder a nanny??

Aye, and who covers school holidays 🧐

I think anyone styling the self as Lady Grantham prefers to have a nanny not a childminder!

I thought the same. This is a drip feed because that was all very relevant to the initial question of what to give. A proper nanny for three years is a different situation from after school wraparound childcare.

That’s not a flex. All three are reasonably true and completely coherent - it’s just additional information. The term ‘childminder’ in the UK is by and large understood to be someone who cares for multiple child in their own home. A nanny is someone who usually provides childcare for solely your child in your own home. Nanny shares and afterschool Nannie’s all readily exist.

It’s not a drip feed. Posters could have reasonably answered asking the details of the work because it would determine the appropriate payoff and/or gift. Instead, of course, they piled on like a bunch of hungry vultures, spotting something possibly tenuous they could kick someone for – all based on fictionalised assumptions.

A ‘childminder’ is largely understood to be someone who provides care for multiple children at once in their own home.

Most nannies working regular days are not able to just swap or cancel hours whenever they want.

But no one here knows or even bothered to ask OP if that was the set up. We had a self employed afterschool nanny. She was perfectly able to swap and cancel hours when she liked, with no repercussions. She ran her work the way she wanted to and we could either accept or decline, as could she. No one here has any evidence the OP didn’t have the same arrangement.

I think in fact the arrangement now described is typically called an after school nanny.

But in terms of an appropriate farewell, the daily hours are as relevant - perhaps more so - than the time they have been with the family.

She's not leaving.you are making her redundant.so you should follow the rules for redundancy pay.plus a nice gift on top.i was made redundant from an 11 year nanny job and was given the car..was made redundant from next job after 10 years and was given nothing.not even a card.so it's really up to you, but a nice card, a bunch of flowers and some money would be welcomed.

@MeandT i work in the tax world
I very much doubt HMRC blessed your arrangement
if it was in the last 15 years anyway.

the OPW rules have tightened up over time but Strictly speaking anyone doing domestic service in your home, using your equipment and doing hours you decide per week

employee

so yes.

I cannot imagine anyone having a nanny who could choose their own hours.

Childcare outside your home is not a nanny and that is seen as childminding.
Most people should also payroll their cleaner. But don’t. And not worth HMRC time to go after.

however Nannie’s. That’s another story. If you have a nanny 2 days a week and Someone else hires the nanny for another 2 days and the 3rd person does 1 day…… they should all operate separate payrolls!!!

Nannie’s earn a lot or should do. And may be subject to exploitation by rich people. So HMRC are interested.
What usually happens is a disgruntled ex nanny shops the family because they are not entitled to benefits or got less £££ at the end than they were expecting.

and there is no pre clearance from hmrc.

your husband’s colleagues might have told him not to worry and the risks of being caught were low. But that’s not the same thing at all.

Exactly title suggests the nanny has handed her notice in, which isn't the case they have finished her due to relocation

@AnonSW20 I think you've misread a quote here - it's didimum who had the self-employed nanny. I was the one who did a rough calculation of what NI, pension, holiday & redundancy back pay may be due.

In didimum's circumstances, it does actually sound like they'd been VERY careful to ensure a very part-time nanny could genuinely be considered self-employed. (Rightly so if one of them was working for HMRC!) There are not many families out there who can have a nanny for, say 9 hours a week and give them the flex to say 'I'll be doing 3-6 M,W,F in week one, 3-7.30 Tues & Thurs in week 2, and 9 hours on a Saturday in week 3 on a rolling basis - which is essentially the kind of latitude needed for a nanny role to be considered genuinely self-employed.

didimum had made a great song & dance about no-one knowing what OPs arrangements are, as they "might" be this flexible. Although plenty of early posts did ask whether the nanny could set their own hours etc, but OP chose not to answer.

Meanwhile the reality is that the overwhelming majority of families using a nanny will have fixed days & times they need during term (even if only 2 regular after school days a week). Or if not, will still want the ability to set their hours around their own shift patterns. Hence aaaaaall the comments from those working in tax that nanny should almost certainly be considered an employee & taxed, pensioned & redundancy paid as such.

So I think we violently agree @AnonSW20 ;)

I was under the impression it was completely legal. I have always had to complete self assessments for most of my working life using accountants and my accountant when I was a nanny never mentioned that it was an issue. I was a nanny before the time when nanny employers had to offer pensions etc though so maybe rules all changed since I did it.

I had a couple of different nanny jobs at the same time one part time 2 days a week where I was employed and then one which was my self-employed one that was adhoc nannying where two families were sharing me. so my self-employed one was essentially they'd contact me on a Friday about the week ahead if they needed someone and if I was able to I'd look after the kids at one of their homes. most of the time I was able to so I did work quite a lot for them but at any point I could say no to that particular job. The women worked from home starting up a business together so if I wasn't there they could still watch their children but obviously it was just easier if they had some form of childcare there. I set my day rate and time off etc so I was self-employed and my accountant never said it was a problem. Ot just depends on the circumstances of the role. Nannying can be a weird one with a lot of blurred boundaries unfortunately.

It isn’t your risk. This is why your accountant has not said anything.

it is the employer’s risk.

The risk is only usually a realised risk when they get reported by an unhappy ex nanny.

This situation is different

if a nanny has a Mon / Tues role with Family A
and then a nanny share wth family B & C Wed / Thursday and then FamilY D on Friday….. this is 3 different employments. (family b & c decide between them who is the employer)

however if Family D is more ad hoc and the nanny can say no, or dictate terms in another way (like time and location) then that is less likely to meet the definition of employment for tax purposes.

your example here sounds like my Family D example

these rules are supposed to protect child carers from exploitation.
Pension. Holiday pay. Sick pay. Maternity pay. Redundancy pay. Etc.

and having more than 1 family is not a blocker to that.

and HMRC is able to investigate where it gets tipped off usually by disgruntled ex Nannie’s / other domestic staff or even disgruntled less well off connections

No it doesn't. Are you saying that you'd put your cleaner who comes every Thursday from 9-12 on paye?

No because they can at any time change the day, not come, put up their rate

No, b/ cos cleaner can decide/request change of day and possibly of hours. Child minder much less likely to be able to do that

I don't know anything about the rules when employing a Nanny.

I do think that after three and a half years, a gift of a decent amount of money should be given - or redundancy money if that is what is legal/appropriate. Just a card and a small gift seems extremely mean to me - especially as it is not her choice.

Be as generous as you can afford

Or pay her her legally entitled redundancy 🙄

Strictly speaking….. If your cleaner comes to your home. At times you dictate. That they cannot change. And they use your equipment. Then yes. They should be on PAYE.

however. If it is only 3-4 hours per week for say 40 weeks of the year then Numbers would be too small for HMRC to be bothered about.
however when someone is working a 7-7 job, 3 days a week then that is worth bothering about if someone tells them and gives them a lead to follow up.

usually this would be a disgruntled ex nanny. Or their partner or parent.

holiday pay. Pension. And employers NIC soon adds up to make it worth HMRC following up a lead.

Oh yes, totally, when someone's got only one employer for years, with regular hours, that's not self employment. I was only contesting the PP's claim that fixed hours = employee. It really doesn't. It's just one of the many self employment tests that means nothing by itself.