Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

[Nextdoortomeis]

As per the title.
I'm sure lots of people would like the state to pay care home fees.
But we don't live in a fair world.
Both mum and mil paid nearly £70k in fees
yes I didn't want to pay but I also wanted them to get the best care in their later years.

We cant afford cradle to the grave. The benefits system needs to move with the times.

One of the previous governments were looking at the viability of creating a market for a one off insurance policy. Was it likely to be c£20k? and proved to be sufficiently expensive that people were unlikely to be willing to pay for it given the likelihood of needing to pay care home fees Most people appeared to want to keep their money and take their chances until they finf they need to pay fees.

Seemed odd to me as a large loss low probability event is traditionally what insurance is for.

There is a current market for immediate or deferred care home fee annuities which involve a significant payment with a guaranteed payment amount like any other annuity. There is no guarantee the payments will cover all the fees, the costs are specific to medical history but don't come cheap - approximately £100k up front for say £20k a year which won't cover much or all of the fees.

Well if we can't afford it may be all end of life care should be means tested.
Not just care homes.

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · Today 16:02
We cant afford cradle to the grave. The benefits system needs to move with the times.
.......

I think it can afforded for those who need it. Many elderly can be self-funding, they are likely to use the NHS but that's for all ages. I'm happy to contribute to the welfare of those who are in need, that's what the welfare state is all about.

Honestly I believe it should be funded if necessary. Exactly the same as other illnesses.

What other care, or treatments would you like to see means tested?

I can't say much about other illnesses like Parkinsons or MS but I can honestly say I wouldn't want to have the latter stages of dementia.

If it was an animal cat, dog, or even a cow who was doubly incontinent, no clue if its New Year or New York the owner would be up in court for neglect.

Why are we allowing people to suffer terminal illness in a way we wouldn't allow animals to suffer?

Why are we allowing people to suffer terminal illness in a way we wouldn't allow animals to suffer?

Only opponents of the assisted dying bill would be able to answer that.

The same reason why those of us who are currently working taxpayers pay for state funded care home residents, and schools, and the NHS.

We pay into the system when we can so that we can take out when we need. That’s the whole point.

The state meets the needs of people who didn’t pay in so it can meets the needs of those who did.

If I need a care home I don’t plan on the state paying for it just so that my children can inherit. I plan on the state paying for it because I’ve done my bit by paying tax, working in paid and voluntary jobs that are needed in society and by being self sufficient. Why shouldn’t I be provided with care if I need it just like everyone else?

My mum is in one of these ‘crappy’ care homes paid for by the state and it’s actually really nice! Great staff too

So true and I know from experience this is true. Try hoisting an elderly dementia patient on your own into bed and on the loo etc, it’s exhausting and heartbreaking

I honestly don't think I'd want my DSs wiping my ass or changing my incontinence pants.

I wouldn't really want a stranger doing it either, but slightly less.....I can't find the right words....than my kids.

Do you know the process?

A lot of care and treatments now comes with heavy restrictions.

The waiting list for mental health support or ND assessments is now so long that if you can't go private, you may as well forget getting treatment. The same goes for many types of surgery. Fertility treatment comes with so many rules around eligibility that many people end up flying abroad to pay a lower cost for it.

It's not just elderly care.

Yes I fully agree, I did cover that in the rest of my post too.

You don’t pay both IHT and capital gains tax

Its one of those areas Rachel was salivating over.
However, nothings changed.

Why just end of life !

Cradle to grave means all life’s years. ( What’s it with people only ever glaring at pensioners. ).

All social care is currently means tested.

Only healthcare is free at the point of access and even then things like prescriptions, dentistry, glasses etc are means tested.

If you need social care you are financially assessed for your ability to pay for it, whether if that's because you have dementia in your 80s, schizophrenia in your 30s, or if you have a learning disability, you were born with, or an acquired brain injury from a heart attack in your 50s, a stroke in your 60s, or multiple sclerosis that started in your 20s, or metastatic cancer in your 40s.

If your care needs are complex, unpredictable and severe they might be considered to be primarily a health need and the NHS will pay the full cost of care.

That’s a contribution of £44,000 a year whilst in a care home !

( ie. How much more you’ll pay as a self funder…..🤯. No wonder these threads are so popular …..
Or is that because most people aren’t in fact self funders so are quite happy to keep others paying that £44,000 )
🤔

Because the conversation is about care homes, which is in the main end of life care. People forget dementia, parkinsons, MS etc are all terminal illnesses.

Personally I don't believe it should be means tested. People should get care of the need it.

Exactly!

It’s simple equality !

Yep. If care homes were run on a not for profit basis then fair enough.

However I know someone who runs multiple. She's dripping in diamonds, can't wait to show you her latest ones. Owns multiple properties that stand empty.

Her staff are all on minimum wage. The homes are a license to print money.

During covid she was upset because so many of her residents were dying it was costing her money.

She basically makes her living extracting the life savings of the old, vulnerable and infirm.

Of course people don't want their parent"s hard earned cash to disappear into the pockets of people like this.

It’s because those of us who are seeing it possibly coming down the line quite fast don’t want to be in the kind of crap care home the state deems appropriate. Personally I’d rather pay and be in the place of my choice. Which will also be the kind of place so popular with self funders it will have a waiting list and won’t accept those who are state funded. There are a lot of those round here.

They can care for you. As you cared for them the first 18 years of their life.

True.
Although a tiny majority ( less than 5% ) of non pensioners pay for their social care.

Here’s some figures from the Kings fund analysts for 22/23