Page 21 | Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

Nextdoortomeis · 2025-04-01T08:51:16+00:00

As per the title. I'm sure lots of people would like the state to pay care home fees. But we don't live in a fair world. Both mum and mil paid nearly £70k in fees yes I didn't want to pay but I also wanted them to get the best care in their later years.

westisbest1982 · 01/04/2025 19:08

The councils can go back as far as they like looking for deprivation of assets, but what can they really do about grandparents downsizing and going on lots of holidays or paying off their family’s student debts and helping them with a house deposit? Those are just normal things that people do when they can.

@CopperWhite They can claim all that money back, is what they can do.

SiobhanSharpe · 01/04/2025 19:10

We spent over 100k on my late DM's care in a residential care home for around 3-4 years before she deteriorated and had to go into a nursing home. This would have been hugely expensive at around £1,000 per week but she obtained 'continuing care' under the NHS which meant it was paid for. (She had multiple conditions, one serious, which resulted in extreme frailty). This was about 2006 (she died in 2016 just a couple of months before her 90th birthday so spent 10 years in care in all.)
Sadly, it seems much harder to obtain continuing care nowadays which seems so unfair for sick people if they are elderly with ongoing multiple conditions, nowhere else in the NHS is there financial assessment on whether someone has the means to pay for their treatment.
If you have MS or motor neurone disease for example and need nursing care, residential or at home, is it chargeable to you?
edited for typo.

Coffeeteasugar · 01/04/2025 19:11

I think people look at as extortion when you are paying so much, yet the staff wiping bottoms and changing sheets are being paid an absolute pittance!

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 01/04/2025 19:16

Pandimoanymum · 01/04/2025 18:59

This thread is so depressing. Can we stop assuming that everyone who gets LA funded care “pissed it up the wall” or never worked, or scrounged off the state all their lives?!
Both my parents worked all their lives but neither had well paying jobs and with three children money was tight. They didn’t have money to put aside for their care but they did manage to buy a modest house. They were decent, hardworking people and wonderful caring parents. Both had to go into nursing homes towards the end of their lives, my father first. And because my mum was still living in the family home and they had very little savings, the LA funded his care costs because obviously you can’t kick an old lady out of her home and force her to sell it to pay for her husband’s care home!
Then when my mum declined, the family home had to be sold to pay for her fees. It didn’t last very long at over £1000 a week, and then the LA funding kicked in.
I wish that they’d been sitting on a home in the south east worth over £1 million as a lot of people are, and could have self-funded years of care - but in our area houses aren’t worth anything like that, so I’m very sorry they had to cost the tax payer a bit of money when theirs ran out. However, it was certainly not because they were a couple of feckless layabouts who scrounged off the state all their lives, an assumption on this thread that seems quite common and that I find quite offensive.
People also seem to forget that if you are self-funding then you get a much greater choice of where you spend your final years. You don’t get to choose when the LA is paying. We got given a list from the LA of the nursing homes that had spaces and the right type of care for mum, and we could pick a maximum of three to go and view. ALL of them cost more than the LA could pay and that’s what we could choose from. Didn’t matter whether mum liked them or not, it was “tough shit, this is all we can offer you, take it or leave it”.
My sister was a senior social worker and thank goodness she was, because she had some “inside” knowledge about some of the homes on the list, and there were some that she said she’d never put Mum in.
Nobody should be made to live somewhere where they’re not happy, or not treated well in the last years of their lives, and if you can afford to self-fund then you’re very lucky that you’ll never have to.
So all in all, having the state pay for your fees isn’t some sort of fantastic reward that scroungers get at the end of their lives, that some people on this thread seem to think it is.

Most people self funding can't pick where they live because they have finite funds. The state pays out a maximum amount. Sure you can top up that amount but when your money runs you would have to leave the home and find a state one, which is not as easy as it sounds.

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 01/04/2025 19:20

@Nextdoortomeis

Did you just start this thread to be contentious? You haven't been back once, which is strange given you feel so strongly about this topic.

user6209817643 · 01/04/2025 19:21

Wingedharpy · 01/04/2025 18:15

Did you have Lasting Power of Attorney for health for your DM @LondonJax ?
If so, and if she'd consented while she still had capacity, it would have been possible to intervene and decline "treatment" on her behalf.
Someone has to be the one to start the conversation about "nature taking its course" and, in my experience, the professionals are very reluctant to be the ones who raise it for fear of being accused of all sorts of horrors.
Sorry for your loss.

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We had POA, but it still didn’t seem possible to stop treatment once they were in a home - we had all the “no extraordinary measures’ and ‘no life prolonging treatment’ conversations and forms filled in, but still, a crisis would invariably happen at night (with less experienced staff about i suspect.) They would ring an ambulance and once that had happened the quickest way for the paramedics to make it someone else’s problem was to ship them off to A and E, which then would be a day waiting about there, a week or so on the ward, then back to the home always significantly worse than they were before they left. Despite no real treatment going on while they were in hospital.
The other people on the ward became people i recognised - I’d imagine they were there as often as my relative was!

I don’t know what the answer is, but i do know i don't want to end my days like it.

MaturingCheeseball · 01/04/2025 19:27

Exactly. You can go and sit in the finest care home, but you ain’t staying there when your money runs out.

Also I’ve shouted this, but NO YOU DON’T have a free choice on care homes if you’re paying. You have to be accepted. Fine if you’re a little forgetful and frail, but those who are already incontinent, or aggressive or problematic will find their options very limited.

The pil weren’t wealthy. Not at all. But just having a £230k house meant they were deemed “rich enough”.

I thoroughly agree that the social contract has to work properly. If the balance seems to tip in favour of those “taking”, then there will be complaining and unrest.

JenniferBooth · 01/04/2025 19:28

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 01/04/2025 15:56

There is an simple way to avoid care home fees. Take your relative into your home and care for them yourself.

I only have a one bedroom flat. Because i havent got living proof that ive had sex without contraception!!!!

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 01/04/2025 19:38

JenniferBooth · 01/04/2025 19:28

I only have a one bedroom flat. Because i havent got living proof that ive had sex without contraception!!!!

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I suspect most people would be happy to move in a bigger space if it meant they were going to inherit a house. It's not rocket science.

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 01/04/2025 19:41

MaturingCheeseball · 01/04/2025 19:27

Exactly. You can go and sit in the finest care home, but you ain’t staying there when your money runs out.

Also I’ve shouted this, but NO YOU DON’T have a free choice on care homes if you’re paying. You have to be accepted. Fine if you’re a little forgetful and frail, but those who are already incontinent, or aggressive or problematic will find their options very limited.

The pil weren’t wealthy. Not at all. But just having a £230k house meant they were deemed “rich enough”.

I thoroughly agree that the social contract has to work properly. If the balance seems to tip in favour of those “taking”, then there will be complaining and unrest.

This is true. You can't just pick and expect to be accepted.

Ginghamsheep · 01/04/2025 19:42

Julen7 · 01/04/2025 11:25

Yes. I have told the kids if it ever comes to it (me having to go into care) just shoot me first

Edited

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So presumably you'd be happy for them to be prosecuted for this after your death?

Wingedharpy · 01/04/2025 19:44

LondonJax · 01/04/2025 18:49

I did @Wingedharpy - but didn't know I could do that. I assumed it was more for the 'she needs treatment' rather than the 'withhold it'. Just shows you don't always know as much as you think you do! Thank you for that. It may come in useful for someone else.

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Sadly, it's not even that simple @LondonJax - as with all things involving this sort of stuff, the "correct box" on the PoA form has to be signed (Section 5 for anyone interested).
The person making the PoA has the choice to either :
Option A - give their attorneys authority to give or refuse consent to life sustaining treatment on their behalf or
Option B - not give their attorneys authority .........

Make sure you tick the right box folks to reflect your wants and make sure you tell folk what you do and don't want.

Louise121806 · 01/04/2025 19:45

Na, just helped my mum sell her house and take her private pension at 60 so she doesn’t have to give her life savings, that she’s worked all her life for to a care company run for profit. She now lives in a luxury static caravan, with minimal outgoings, holidaying whenever she wants, with plenty of money in the bank. She’s never looked or felt so well. When the time comes, my siblings and I will care for her. She deserves to enjoy her life now.

FishPie2 · 01/04/2025 19:49

I payed thousands for my husbands care home fees and all he did was lay in the bed without speach or movement and be fed liquids. It is not going to happen to me as I have lots of vodka and paracetamol which will fix it which we have talked about at length. My son is not going through that again .Seriously. Can't wait for Dignity in Dying to become law.

Julen7 · 01/04/2025 19:51

Ginghamsheep · 01/04/2025 19:42

So presumably you'd be happy for them to be prosecuted for this after your death?

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It’s a joke 🥹

Sammy900 · 01/04/2025 19:59

Is there some sort of old age insurance policy that you could pay into later on in life? Like life insurance when you have a mortgage.

You could take that out if you needed to pay for care or if not...well that's the risk.

At least then it doesn't eat into everything you've earned and assets you'd rather pass down to your family / children.

I think I googled this out of curiosity a few years ago and there wasn't anything that existed it might be different now.

Seymour5 · 01/04/2025 20:00

Seeingadistance · 01/04/2025 17:34

I'm currently in my late 50s and have decided that I'll be happy to go anytime between 78 and 80 years old. The trick is to top yourself just before you get to that point.

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I’m late 70s, with no intention of going anywhere soon! You don’t know how you’ll feel til you get there. DH is eighty, we can still look after ourselves, cooking, shopping, housework, garden. We have no family members nearby. I go to the leisure centre for exercise classes, and meet others in their seventies, all doing their best to remain independent and active. Neither DH or I want to go into a care home, and as our home isn’t valuable, the money wouldn’t last long.

We never had high wages, holidays were visits to family, DH had a van for years, we couldn’t afford a car as well, but we prioritised buying a house, which is our only asset. Our car is ancient, and we don’t have a great deal in savings. It would feel mightily unfair to have to subsidise care for people who may have earned far more than us, but spent every penny. Fortunately our DC don’t need our money, but it would have been worth our years of frugality to ensure we could leave a little to the DGC to help them get started.

Cosyblankets · 01/04/2025 20:01

northerneast · 01/04/2025 10:22

That’s not strictly true though as self funders have the choice of settings.

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In an ideal world this would be true.
But we don't live in an ideal world. These "choice" homes don't just keep beds available for when Mr Self Funder needs a care home. If there is no space there, they go where there is a space. If the choice care home does not cater for their needs they do not go to the choice care home.
We were in this situation. Our relative was a self funder. Not one space locally. Ended up in a care home out of the area to the tune of around 5k a month. No choice as they were discharged from hospital and there was nothing available. Then they had a fall and were in hospital for almost a month. Still had to pay that full 5k. I fully appreciate the staff need paying but how many rooms are sitting empty because someone is in hospital medium to long term? What do you do? Pay 5k for nothing or let the room go and start all over again?
Please don't kid yourself that you get a choice
You don't
They're not going to kick someone out because you have money.
If there's no bed there's no bed.

PeonyBlushSuede · 01/04/2025 20:03

Wigglytails · 01/04/2025 14:11

Nevermind the thousands spent on monthly nursing care home support - We should be having an honest national discussion about whether keeping people with dementia going in care home settings is the best thing for them, their standard of living and who actually benefits - imho it’s certainly not the patient

i agree.

My Nan had dementia, most of the time was handled at home with carers (she needed more care but funding it was hard). After a hospital stay she was sent to a care home for the last few weeks of her life. It was a very good care home she was at.

However by the end she was bedbound, double incontinent and had no concept of who we were or what was going on.

If an animal was living like this it would be seen as cruel to keep them going in this condition.

Cosyblankets · 01/04/2025 20:05

Louise121806 · 01/04/2025 19:45

Na, just helped my mum sell her house and take her private pension at 60 so she doesn’t have to give her life savings, that she’s worked all her life for to a care company run for profit. She now lives in a luxury static caravan, with minimal outgoings, holidaying whenever she wants, with plenty of money in the bank. She’s never looked or felt so well. When the time comes, my siblings and I will care for her. She deserves to enjoy her life now.

Again this is an ideal world.
But what if she develops an illness where you can't physically look after her?
Nobody thinks this will happen to them or their mum or dad.

We would have looked after our relative but their needs were too great. It was not possible.
No one has any idea unless they've experienced it.

northerneast · 01/04/2025 20:09

Cosyblankets · 01/04/2025 20:01

In an ideal world this would be true.
But we don't live in an ideal world. These "choice" homes don't just keep beds available for when Mr Self Funder needs a care home. If there is no space there, they go where there is a space. If the choice care home does not cater for their needs they do not go to the choice care home.
We were in this situation. Our relative was a self funder. Not one space locally. Ended up in a care home out of the area to the tune of around 5k a month. No choice as they were discharged from hospital and there was nothing available. Then they had a fall and were in hospital for almost a month. Still had to pay that full 5k. I fully appreciate the staff need paying but how many rooms are sitting empty because someone is in hospital medium to long term? What do you do? Pay 5k for nothing or let the room go and start all over again?
Please don't kid yourself that you get a choice
You don't
They're not going to kick someone out because you have money.
If there's no bed there's no bed.

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We found self funding to be the opposite experience, I’m not ‘kidding myself’, self funding can and does, but of course not always, give pejole more options

Cosyblankets · 01/04/2025 20:11

northerneast · 01/04/2025 20:09

We found self funding to be the opposite experience, I’m not ‘kidding myself’, self funding can and does, but of course not always, give pejole more options

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I'm sure it can give choice.
It didn't in our case.
Our self funding relative was almost an hour away. Luckily we all drive.

Julen7 · 01/04/2025 20:17

Sammy900 · 01/04/2025 19:59

Is there some sort of old age insurance policy that you could pay into later on in life? Like life insurance when you have a mortgage.

You could take that out if you needed to pay for care or if not...well that's the risk.

At least then it doesn't eat into everything you've earned and assets you'd rather pass down to your family / children.

I think I googled this out of curiosity a few years ago and there wasn't anything that existed it might be different now.

Apparently there is, a poster earlier in the thread mentioned it. They said it was costly though.

MaturingCheeseball · 01/04/2025 20:18

yes @Cosyblankets dh visited masses of nursing homes. Each one wanted an assessment of mil, and all except one said no. Meanwhile mil was “bed blocking” in hospital and the hospital were threatening legal action against her family unless she was moved.

The poster who suggested that care home fees are saved if you look after your parent yourself…. Well, I challenge you to take on a large aggressive lady who is doubly incontinent and has no sense of night and day. Or who you are or who she is.

BeyondMyWits · 01/04/2025 20:22

MIL is in a nursing home with a cocktail of dementias and breathing, and heart, and diabetes, and gut issues. She is doubly incontinent and bedbound. She does not get continuing care paid for by the nhs despite her many nursing needs.

She lives there now, being taken care of around the clock - she doesn't need a house. If her (not very large amount of) money can make her more comfortable as she dies, then so be it. She's not coming out of there alive, and neither I, nor my husband are capable of, or prepared to, provide that level of care.