Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

[Nextdoortomeis]

As per the title.
I'm sure lots of people would like the state to pay care home fees.
But we don't live in a fair world.
Both mum and mil paid nearly £70k in fees
yes I didn't want to pay but I also wanted them to get the best care in their later years.

Agree
I think that’s why we need an insurance system akin to the one in Guernsey.
My aunt had Alzheimer’s for 12 years. She was in a home and the Insurance company paid all top ups over her state and workplace pension.
If she’d only had a state pension they would still cover the lot as that’s the guarantee.

If everyone and I do mean everyone paid into a similar system all their lives then everyone!! Is paying for their own care.
That’s much farer than some, as always, having to foot the bill for themselves and others. If it costs everyone should pay or no one.

A persons Savings are not the property of others to take or have decisions over.

Well care workers wages should go up then So they can afford to pay for their own care later on

I'm not sure how.

Apart from there is not enough separation between bands.

I used to work in care homes, £1500 a week back about 6 years ago, I dread to think how much it is now !!

Not quite true. The person being funded will have no choice where s/he goes. The person doing the funding (as you would have it) has choice. My MiL and parents had choice and we inherited less. I’m still happy with that.

Everyone should pay or none at all but certainly no ones savings should be used to pay for others who don’t pay.
Or perhaps the insurance scheme would be better which I noted above.

Some areas pay so much more than others.
Partly down to the huge increase in adult social care
ie all people over 18 that need care.

There’s very little choice.
Places are scarce
99% of homes are not all self funders, chandeliers and a la carte

People take what ever is available.

There are misconceptions about the difference in quality of care between council run care homes and privately run care homes. I think some people would be shocked to find out it’s not as it seems.

Ah I see, regional variations. Yes, I live in a more expensive area.

I absolutely agree! But my point is that family members complaining that their parents home/money goes on paying for that care are absurdly handwaving away this issue. Good care costs money. In previous generations the labour of younger members of the family was sequestered to maintain elders whether there was family property or not. The state would step in and penalize children for not caring for elders (in good standing) and would penalize vagrants snd the poor with the workhouse. The current laws regarding inheritance arose out of larger political and cultural decisions about how individuals could amass and hold wealth. Ordinary people are able to amass and hold wealth for their lifetime and are expected to be self supporting to the best of their ability. Its not some kind of unfair cruelty that people should be expected to plan for their own eldercare needs.

100% agree, and I speak as one of the despised Baby Boomers who did have the sheer good luck to buy a house in London before it became like one of Willie Wonka's golden tickets!

I think one of the issues that people think is unfair is that in some homes when you pay for your own care you are usually paying over the odds and are subsidising others who are paid for by the state as the cap on what they will pay is lower than it actually costs. For instance in many homes if you run out of money you can stay but the costs are more or less the same (although you might change to a less palatial room) despite the fees paid by the government being much lower. This shortfall is made up by those who are paying their own fees.

I’ve gone on MN about this before. I think it is very unfair that the state will take you down to £23,000 before helping. As others have said, a modest home and assets won’t last long. It would be fairer to either have the insurance system or take a percentage of home/assets and then the state kicks in. Wonder what happened to the £86,000 max ‘oven ready’ policy…..

And what do you do with those who are unsafe to be discharged from hospital, who have neither paid the PAYE insurance or the means to self fund?

What would be the difference between this PAYE insurance and NI?

It just sounds like another complex tax system.

I think if people need care they should get it, as part of Social Care or NHS.
But people should have a choice to go private. Bit like schools if your happy with the local care home great if you want an Eton level of care get your purse out.

I think it you can pay for your carehome you should. I would however like more the the money to go to the carers rather than the owners ( never met a broke owner of a care franchise)

Agree @rwalker

just like the pp who noted her mum saving and paying for care whilst her MIL spent it all and didn’t bother saving so got it all for free!
That would really p… me off.

That’s the UK way. Another completely unfair system.

There are ways around it though. So always worthwhile having a Mumsnet thread to share advice 😃

And people wonder they struggle to find care workers. Its not considered to be a job of value and if they know they are going to be resented for being poorer later on why the fuck WOULD ppl choose to do this for a job. I wouldnt.
40,000 of them quit due to not wanting the Covid vaccine. More will think fuck it Im not doing a thankless job for shit pay to be looked down on later on when i need care

But should they also have to pay for others that don’t?

everyone is conveniently ignoring this fact

Given that most care homes charge £1k a week for shit care from minimum wage staff whilst care home owners rake it in at a massive profit YABU.

My Uncle worked all his life for his home and it went paying for horrendous care and shit food and for people who had never worked a day in their life to live in the same place. He paid for them all the way through his life and in their old age as well as himself and the care home owners profited massively while he was abused by care home staff who stole from him. It was £1200 a week for this.

What you're arguing for is care home owners to profit because literally nobody else does well from the arrangement (unless you sit on your arse all your life or you own a care home).
If you got decent food and decent care that would be one thing but as recent headlines have shown, you don't.

Totally agree with you @Nextdoortomeis

I recently moved house for a job. I quite liked the house I owned in the town I've left, and it's got lots of important and significant memories for me.

So I think the government (ie taxpayers) should pay for me to buy a house where I've moved to, because of - oh all the memories of the family home. And to save it for my children's inheritance.

It's ridiculous isn't it?

It's just the same when going into a retirement or care home: you can't live in your old home, so sell it to pay for the place you need to live in.

Care homes don’t make as much profit as you’d expect.

What exactly do they spend it on?
It's not staff wages or food that's for sure.

My maternal grandparents died at home in their late 70s. Their children cared for them, no issues. My paternal grandmother lived to 102, my mother was the only surviving close relative and she was 80 at the time. Caring for her broke my mother, physically and mentally. It would have been much better for grandma to go into a home.

My mother is 83 now and doesn't require care yet, but if she will in the next few years, I won't be able to provide it myself. I work ft (20 years to go still) and I've got children to take care of.

The whole system needs radical reform.

I wait with baited breath for a government who is prepared to take on that mammoth political hot potato!