To think that people pretend not to understand obesity

[Mezzoprezzo]

After 30 plus years of failed diets I've recently started on mounjaro. Because I've placed an order and spent weeks searching stuff about weight loss medication, my Facebook feed is full of adverts from suppliers, many of which use vlogs from real clients who have lost weight. And the vast majority of comments are along the lines of, couldn't you just eat less, haven't you heard of exercise, why not just stop eating crap etc. Surely people are faking ignorance to have the fun of fat bashing. Obesity is rife! Everyone knows someone who struggles with their weight and who talks openly about it. I and every other obese person I know have tried every diet under the sun. Walk into any gym and you'll see a fair number of larger people trying bloody hard. And I know someone's going to reply to this post by talking about an obese friend who they once saw eating an entire packet of biscuits. Well numerous times I've given in to the overwhelming urge to do that too. And hated myself afterwards. It's part of the horrible condition. People have got eyes and ears and they seriously know full bloody well how hard obese people try to lose weight. They just pretend not to so they can have the fun of hating.

@Winifredtabago But I hear the underlying message, which is that you don't have any actual evidence from the website that you keep quoting at me, because it isn't there.

Urgh, the nasty fat freaks are really causing you harm, aren't we. Perhaps we should just be dressed in, vast obviously, sacks so the Normal People don't have to face the indignity of having to buy a size 8.

Oh I wish! It was affecting my health. Hence GP being so supportive.

Nope. The medication helps with the insulin resistance as well. It isn't just the restriction.

But an addict is an addict.

It doesn't matter how it started.

If they're addicted then they're addicted and that's that.

Just back from being out all day so can't do anything but skim read through the thread. Two camps have emerged as expected to prove my point. I still can't understand how anyone can struggle to understand. The obesity epidemic is growing at an alarming rate. But you know what's growing just as quickly? The diet industry! It's unlikely you've ever met a fat person who a) didn't know how to lose weight and b) hadn't tried over and over again to do it.
People who say that obese people should make healthier choices assume that everyone's on a level playing field. We all have different brains and different hormone levels. Mine won't let me eat little enough to lose weight without experiencing hunger and cravings which completely overwhelm me and that I can't withstand long term. Well I couldn't until now. Mounjaro has given the brain of someone who's able to make those good choices.

Anyone who tells you to just eat less and do more exercise to lose weight has obviously never had a major weight problem.

Hey, just gonna throw this into the ring.

So I will be your obese case study…

Weight fluctuated up and down all adult life aged 16 - 35, but remained in normal range in the main and dipped into overweight with clothes size ranging from 8/10 - 14/16. Was a size 12 for the majority of the time.

Weight increased with first pregnancy (35 yrs old) big bump. Went up to 16/18. Concerted effort to lose baby weight after the sleep deprived 1st year of motherhood. Managed to get back in size 10’s when toddler turned 3.

Second pregnancy. A toughie, extra monitoring needed, ++physical pain and strain. Huge bump, gained over 4 stone. Did not eat differently to when was a slimmer size 8-12. In fact due to severe morning sickness could barely eat anything for a lot of the pregnancy.

Struggled to lose the weight, tried everything I did previously with bells on and started earlier (baby 5 months old). Nothing. Nada. Gained more weight. Cut calories as hard as I dared during breastfeeding and even harder after finished nursing. Health problems started to
arise. Got desperate, got depressed. Could not understand why I could not lose weight.
Health got worse.

Finally after a long medical journey, arrived at the discovery my thyroid gland had been eaten away by disease. By the time tests and ultrasound concluded the diagnosis I was in an advanced state of hypothyroidism, my metabolism was through the floor, completely dysfunctional and vital organs had been damaged. I was simply not burning calories in any kind of normal way for at least a few years, but I suspect longer. The weight had simply piled on and refused to budge, even eating healthily and actively attempting 15 (yes, 15) different diets (some doubled or more) and exercise over the course of 3 years.

Thyroid disease was the cause of the gain and is still my biggest barrier to losing weight, despite being on hormone medication (Levothyroxine).
I am still battling and may well face this battle for the rest of my life.

Please have compassion for larger people. You don’t know what hand they’ve been dealt in life, their background, what their story is.
Obesity is also in my family line on both my maternal and paternal side. So is thyroid disease. Interestingly it appears they were all normal size / slim until their mid/ late 30’s.

Copied from Thyroid UK website:

”Hypothyroidism is mostly seen in women between the ages of 40-50 and is seen in women ten times more often than men.2 It often occurs during the menopausal years and symptoms are often ignored during the early stages by both patients and doctors if the patient is at this age.

The prevalence of hypothyroidism is 1-2% (approximately 2 in every 100 people) but some doctors feel that the rate is much higher than this.3

Subclinical hypothyroidism is found in 8–10% of the population, is more common in women and increases with age.4

Common signs of an underactive thyroid are tiredness, weight gain and feeling depressed.

I’m beginning to think there is no point in entering into a debate with people who just don’t get it. It’s like when I decided I was an atheist. Being religious is the default in NI and it took me a while to learn that allowing myself to be trapped into a debate by someone religious was a big mistake. We just ran in circles. With the whole diet/obesity issue, there are far too many people who haven’t caught up with the latest information and all you’re doing is wasting your breath. I was curious about obesity because my SIL, previously a very slim dancer, became obese over a few years. I found it difficult to shift weight myself, but was (and still am) overweight rather than obese. I read a good book and a few articles and honestly changed my perspective completely. Previously I thought obese people ‘just’ needed to move more/eat less etc. But I get it now, after reading up on the subject. My SIL has been on weight loss injections for a few months and her weight has dropped and she has fewer aches and pains as a result. She also looks great. I’m just incredibly happy for her and glad that such a resource was out there for her to take advantage of.

That feels like a challenge.

I actually don't know that many 'fat' people.

I don't judge. I smoke like a bastard.

I think your statement is true to so much in life. Many people do not have the empathy/sympathy or ability to walk in someone else’s shoes unless they’ve walked in it themselves.

Im someone who has never had a weight problem, but I have watched my mum who was stick thin and tall in her younger years, struggle with weight gain in her late 40s and 50s - she did make some drastic diet changes about a decade ago, so although she is still a bigger size, she has her clothes tailor made, she’s much healthier - thin on top but can’t get rid of anything below the hips.

Again, prior to witnessing this, I was oblivious to how obesity worked, but I wasn’t horrible about it. But just because one can keep weight off it doesn’t mean we don’t have our own issues to deal with. I come across many that “pretend not to understand” depression, diabetes, parenting … and lots more until they go through it themselves.

I don’t think anyone pretends not to understand, I just think there needs to be more education around it - especially as it can happen to anyone of us.

@JjaneEeyre

I could have written that. I’m good with money and not bothered by alcohol but food is a completely different matter.

@Mumtumtastic I also have a thyroid condition and whilst it’s treated and my results are ‘normal’, I definitely suffer with the symptoms (including not being able to lose weight). Worst for me is the fatigue and brain fog.

But people don't have to eat them ! Humans have intelligence and independent thought. We have choice. Look back at the 1950s and very few people were overweight because there were few UPFs.

We know what to eat to maintain healthy weight. Basically grilled or roasted meat or fish with assorted veg. Or stews and casseroles with lots of veg. Eggs. Fruit. It's easy and cheaper.

It isn't about eating less. It's about avoiding

• endless sweet stuff
• Desserts
• Processed sauces and dressings
• Pastries, cakes, biscuits, ice cream, sweets, crisps, shop made puddings, and diet foods.
• Pasta, white over-processed flour goods.
• most alcohol

I'm a full time working single mum and I manage to cook from scratch. It really isn't difficult to provide fast basic food at low cost. I make my own wholemeal bread at the weekends. Cheaper and much better than tasteless, shop bought bread.

Today I made veggie soup to take to the office. Ten minutes work for a tasty, healthy, filling, hydrating lunch with eight different veg. 250 calories, about 40p. Better than the 500 calories and £4 for a flabby chicken mayonnaise sandwich in a nasty plastic triangle, & some crisps. £72 a month saving just on lunch !

I don’t think it’s pretending to not understand, I think it really is difficult to empathise with something you haven’t experienced. I am a healthy weight and always have been and don’t struggle with addictions in my life to anything, so I don’t understand it. I can understand the basic principle of “it’s an addiction” but I can’t empathise with it or fully appreciate how the addiction even begins, iyswim. Anecdotally, I think a lot of diets seem destined to fail from the offset with too many rules and emphasis on “healthy” food. I eat junk food, I eat healthy food, sometimes I exercise, sometimes I’m lazy. But it really is physics isn’t it, calories in vs calories out (with the exception of medical anomalies but I don’t believe that covers much of the large numbers of obesity in the country). If MJ helps people, I think that’s a great thing, but I also think the mentality can be eased by not being so hard on yourself and just push in the right direction bit by bit.

Eh, no. It improves your response to insulin.

In my case its meant instead of taking up to 90 (yes thats not a typo, and thats for a healthy diet of around 1200cal!) units of fast acting insulin + 34 units of long acting per day... I now take around 20 to 30 units of fast acting and 26 long acting each day.

So its dropped my fast acting insulin by two thirds, that is incredible. It's meant I don't now have visible, pitted, 'elephant skin' patches of lymphedema on various body parts, can move better, feel better etc etc.

For people who are not diabetic, being more responsive to insulin is still a good thing and will help them not put on weight and not have blood sugar swings/crashes that trigger them to eat.

That is its purpose, the 'it takes away food noise and slows digestion so you feel fuller for longer' is the side effect.

I would also question the wisdom behind a lot of the advice on 'healthy' eating.

The NHS eatwell plate advises 1/3 of our daily intake.comes from carbs.

We all know that excess carbs are converted into glucose (sugar) in the body.

We know about insulin. That insulin is released in response to glucose in the body.

Insulin is the 'fat storing hormone'. You can't lose fat efficiently whilst there is insulin present in your body.

Insulin is responsible for hunger pangs. Sugar highs and lows aren't necessary. Cravings aren't necessary.

People who eat low carb/keto (and do it properly) don't experience cravings, sugar highs or crashes. They also find that the food noise disappears and appetite is regulated.

But people regard low carb as a 'fad diet' claiming they don't want to cut put any food group but see low fat as common sense.

It is advice based on old science that believed eating fat makes you fat when sugar is the problem.

But it's hard to do because everywhere you go sells food that is absolutely laden with carbs, hidden carbs. Etc. It's practically impossible to buy any prepared food that doesn't contain any sugar. Even most shop bought pate and smoked salmon contains sugar.

What we actually need is real, independent, unbiased, up to date research done into weight gain/loss and an overhaul of the diet industry and the food industry in general. No research that is funded by the food industry or medical industry. But that won't happen because there's too much money to be made from junk food, junk food that presents itself as healthy and pharmaceutical companies selling expensive medication.

Oh I don't know. I've never smoked, but I have huge empathy for smokers, who are desperate to give up but can't. No, I don't want to breathe in their smoke, but as long as they go outside to do it, I'm not going to judge them. No one would want to limit their life with smoking gladly.

Ironically, I know smokers that sit in judgement on fat people. 🙄🙄🙄

And as for this But it really is physics isn’t it, calories in vs calories out judgemental crap, you're are wilfully ignoring ignoring all the evidence to the contrary. And there IS plenty out there (some of which is in this thread) disproving this.

@eggnog7

But it really is physics isn’t it, calories in vs calories out (with the exception of medical anomalies but I don’t believe that covers much of the large numbers of obesity in the country)

Obesity results from a calorie surplus, yes, but "just don't accumulate a calorie surplus then" isn't a helpful solution in itself. People with obesity are strongly predisposed to develop a calorie surplus because of genes, environment, and biology, in a way that people without obesity aren't. I can temporarily lose weight if I follow any diet that creates a calorie deficit, and I have done many times in my life, but the level of focus and obsession with food that doing this requires is not something that I can sustain over more than around a year, and the moment I take my eye off the ball the weight goes back on.

The only thing that has allowed me to live a normal life that isn't completely centred around what I have eaten, am eating or am going to eat next, is Mounjaro 🤷

My calories in calories out is broken 😞

Hypothyroidism has chemically lowered my metabolism. It has also chemically caused depression whereas I was a very happy and ‘glass half full’ type person before.

The cals in out argument does not fit in every case. I eating less and the weight still piled on, all attempts to shift it failed (I worked hard and am still working hard)
I am still 4 stone overweight and obese as I am short.

I’m sorry you’ve also got thyroid problems too @iamnotalemon . Have the meds helped you? Yes, I am with you on that, the brain fog and crushing fatigue have been the worst.

The cognitive symptoms became so bad I was scared it might be early onset dementia (prior to thyroid diagnosis) as the fog got severe with location disorientation and confusion. Sometimes didn’t recognise what room I was in and forgot where I was going when out. Could not follow what people were saying, confusion with simple processes (like getting dressed) and memory shot. In the final few months before diagnosis I had slurred speech and was so fatigued I couldn’t walk properly (shuffled) and couldn’t stand up more than 3-4 minutes.

It was devastating, going from being a healthy normal adult to this and obese to boot.

We cannot always control the hand we get dealt in life.

(This goes for lots of things not just weight, but disabilities, predisposition to genetic traits, addictions etc)

By blaming the food industry you’re admitting that the problem is the type of food that people are eating. What you put in your mouth is entirely within your control. Nobody ever got obese eating the correct quantities of real food.

Please see my message above, yes for me it did.

An undiagnosed disease progression drove my weight gain. I was eating less but gaining 😢

It also drove severe depression where I was depression free and happy before.

When hormones are out of whack it can literally change life as you know it

I agree but I think there are huge swathes of the country who actually don't know how to eat healthily or cook healthy meals. I'm thinking of people I've known since childhood. In the 70s and 80s they grew up eating ready meals and take aways or things out of tins. Their parents never cooked nutritious meals from scratch. Now they are parents or even grandparents themselves and they've raised their own children on similar foods. It's generational ad cultural - this lack of understanding about nutrition and how to cook. My in-laws live in southern Europe, originally from Asia. When I go to their countries (in Europe and Asia), I see the poorest people eating real food. Healthy meals made from vegetables and pulses. Here the poorest people tend to eat absolute crap. I'm really not surprised we have an obesity problem.