To be upset that the police didn’t do anything? Dangerous dog

[Koulibiak]

I can’t sleep and can’t stop thinking about what happened and what could have happened.

I had just stepped out to walk my dogs (both small, placid dogs - one is a toy breed and the other a beagle mix) this afternoon. We crossed path with a woman pushing a bike with a front trolley thing. I assumed the trolley was for a child (the type you see in Amsterdam), I didn’t have time to see that there was something inside. Suddenly a dog jumped out of the trolley and attacked my dogs, one after the other. The dog was a female Labrador, she went straight for my dogs’ necks and on top of their backs. My dogs yelped in pain, started going in different directions and tripped me.

It all happened so fast, as I fell on the pavement I thought the Labrador was going to kill us all.

Eventually the woman got her dog back, I asked her to stay while I called the police. I got my dogs back inside the house, checked that neither of them was bleeding, they are both fine.

The police arrived, the woman turned on the water works and started sobbing. I said the dog was dangerously out of control, and at the very least the woman should receive a FPN for not having her dog on a lead.

The police were so dismissive - they said they wouldn’t issue a FPN because the woman had not realised the dog wasn’t tethered in the trolley, so she had no intention of breaking the law. I pointed out that intent is not part of the offence, but they said the poor woman had a flat tire on her bike, she was very distraught, she was going to have to walk 25 minutes home (like it’s a massive ordeal?) and they “didn’t want to make her day even worse with a FPN”. They said the dog is not an XL bully or Rottweiler, so it is not a dangerous dog (obviously that’s not true).

There were so many little aggressions in the way the constables spoke to me, I actually reminded them that I was the victim and she was the perpetrator. Like they implied that my dog was also out of control (absolutely untrue), or that they have discretion and can do whatever they want. Also that they now have my details on file, like I was a suspect.

Honestly it’s made me feel so sad for all the women who try and report assaults, the mix of dismissiveness and superiority and “we don’t owe you an explanation” and “I can see there’s nothing we can say that will placate you”. Just because I was asking them to enforce the law and protect the public. It was also obvious they didn’t understand the DDA at all.

I did ask the woman why her dog wasn’t muzzled and whether she was prepared to live with her conscience if her dog killed a child or another dog. She replied “absolutely”.

I just keep reliving the few seconds when the dog leapt out at my dogs and I fell on the pavement, not knowing where the dog was or how to protect myself or my dogs… it’s like a nightmare on repeat. 🙁

How does it not meet the criteria? The offending dog jumped out of the trolley to get at the other dogs and the owner couldn't restrain it because it wasn't wearing a lead. They were in a public space. That seems to meet the criteria to me.

It does not have to be a two way encounter to be a minor scuffle.

The small dogs being near what the lab perceives as it's territory (the owner) was enough for the lab to feel the need to chase the two little dogs away.

You'll be wasting your breath trying to get a 'dangerously out of control in a public place' offence here @Koulibiak

Find this womans address/name and go for the vets bills for your dog/criminal damage to your property.

Police are rarely interested when its a dog on dog attack which this was. If you say you feared injury to yourself, they may pursue it, but given you don't seem to have said that or that the dog went after you in anyway, its unlikely after the fact.

In theory, the DDA applies if a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place -which does NOT necessarily mean off lead - in fact a dog could be dangerously out of control ON a lead and of course could be perfectly under control off one...

AND if you felt there was reasonable cause to fear injury as a result of the dogs out of control behaviour.

But proving it is a difficult matter unfortunately and depends very much on the area and the individual officers who deal with a case.

It is rare that a case would be brought if you got injured protecting your own dogs, vs got injured because the dog in question knocked you down/attacked you. I don't agree with it, but thats generally the case.

You don't understand dog social behaviour, do you?

Dogs are naturally highly territorial. A dog approaching another dog's territory (which can include owners) will usually be challenged (with posturing and sniffing) or seen off with a scuffle. Both are normal responses.

These scuffles are very common, are noisy, dramatic, and usually do not result in injury.

This mixing in public is not a natural situation for dog's, and has to be trained. Many still find it pretty stressful.

An attack is something different entirely. The intent isn't a social function - it is to harm or kill. It's usually not as noisy, and it's much rarer.

Please get your dogs checked over by the vets - even if they look fine. A lot of damage happens under the skin, serious tissue damage.

I have a small, now yappy, dog. This has only started since he was attacked, completely unprovoked, by a large dog. He seemed fine too but scans showed a lot of damage for which he needed surgery and months of recovery.

It’s actually proof that the dog didn’t attack. Because you’re quite right, the result of what would have happened if the dog did attack would have left a toy breed literally ripped to shreds.

No injury to the small dog - it was not attacked.

OP - I have toy breeds and a spaniel. When they play, teeth are bared, growling happens and if someone who doesn’t know them was watching, it would look like one was attacking the other. They don’t even touch each other. It’s all a game. The ‘big’ dog knows the others are tiny. She swats her paws like she’s fighting but she’s nowhere near them. She knows what she’s doing (as do we, as we kept a very close eye for years just to be sure!). They thoroughly enjoy (and instigate) this game.

It may have felt to you like an ‘attack’ but it absolutely categorically wasn’t. A Labrador cannot attack a small breed (especially not a toy breed!) and leave them without a mark! That’s why the police haven’t don’t anything.

And as everyone else has said, you were on the ground because you didn’t have control of your own dogs and allowed yourself to be tied up and tripped up by their leads!

I’m not sure where you got “chase them away” from, it was on their backs going for their necks.

But that’s dog for “bugger off” - it’s just how they communicate with each other.

It looks really aggressive to us but it’s honestly normal for them. Honestly, if the Labrador wanted to hurt them, he/she would have done - easily.

Edit: going for necks can also mean play - it’s not necessarily “fighting speak”.

I understand dog social behaviour perfectly well. If this were an incident between two similar sized off lead dogs who had approached one another it wouldn’t be a problem. The thing is, while the lab may not have done huge amounts of physical damage, when clearly it was capable of doing so, it very easily overpowered the two smaller dogs and that is not okay. Dogs do not have to bite to do harm. I’ve known small dogs suffer dislocations requiring treatment from such interactions. I don’t blame the lab for a second, it was acting on its natural instincts. I blame the irresponsible owner for failing to control her reactive dog. Yes dogs have all these instincts and this behaviour comes naturally to them, but this is inherited from their wild ancestors who were, by and large, the same size and fairly evenly matched. Our selective breeding has led to massive differences in size and strength. If you own a large dog it is absolutely unacceptable to allow them to overpower a much smaller dog. You seem to be trying to portray this as just natural behaviour between the animals without taking the slightest consideration for the massive power imbalance. It’s not the labs fault, but the owner should have it made very clear to them that what happened is absolutely not acceptable and it is entirely their responsibility to prevent such an incident reoccurring.

@faerietales Please stop - it is NOT normal, appropriate dog behaviour for a dog to jump on top of another dog to 'communicate'.

That is abnormal behaviour from a dog with behaviour issues, likely anxiety/fear possibly at being trapped in a cart... doesn't make it normal communication.

Normal communication for 'I want you to go away' would be a hard stare, ears back, stiff body and then turn the head away - possibly raising the lip/growling if necessary. Then wait for the other dog to back off, and only escalate up the ladder of aggression if proved necessary.

Normal communication asks for distance, avoids head on interaction or physical contact in the first instance.

None of what happened was normal routine dog behaviour from well balanced happy, relaxed dogs. The labradors owner SHOULD have had her dog on a lead and taken steps to avoid getting too close to the other dogs if she knows her dog has a problem.

@WiddlinDiddlin you’ve totally misread my post.

Everything you say would be fine between two dogs of the same size who were both off lead. That is not what happened in this situation though.

I’m not trying to say it’s fine - people are misunderstanding me.

I’m trying to say that if the Labrador meant business, those little dogs would have been badly bitten, but as it stands, it was just a misguided attempt at communication.

The lab was trapped in the buggy and unable to act naturally - so it responded in a way that was certain to get the other dogs to get away from
her/her owner. If she had been out of the buggy and on the floor when she met the other dogs, it likely would never have happened.

I’ve also said multiple times that what happened isn’t okay but that that doesn’t make it a police matter (which is what the whole thread was originally about). The lab should absolutely have been on lead.

Yep, my friend brought her elderly dog to my house. I have my own elderly dog. Anyone with one knows they get cranky in their old age.
Friend's dog went to get one of my dog's toys. My dog lost her shit. She launched at my friend's dog and they had a proper scrap. My friend's dog did fight back. We had to pull them apart. Both had blood on them from somewhere. We never actually worked out where it came from!
Neither of us felt the need to call the police or dog warden. These things happen.

In the OP, the lab was in a trolley thing. Were they in there due to an injury? It is not usual for a dog to be in something like that unless they are injured or elderly.

It is the owner's responsibility to have the dog on a lead, yes. However, accidents happen, and getting the police involved is just ridiculous.

It is normal when the little dogs invaded the lab's space - which neither owner realised was happening.

And scuffles, among dogs, are very low on the ladder of aggression. They are much less avoidant of physical contact than humans are in conflict situations.

My well behaved, non-reactive and trained German Shepherd has been attacked by 4 different off lead Labrador’s. My dog did not provoke or respond negatively, he’s a bit of a wuss but doesn’t look it.
is this poor breeding or poor ownership or both?
Any dog can be dangerous and a Labrador is big enough to do a lot of damage.
I wonder if the lab in the trolley felt vulnerable? Anxious dogs are dangerous and the problem should be addressed by the owner.
At the very least the lab owner should have had a warning.
OP I hope you’re ok, an aggressive dog and ending up on the floor is horrible and pretty scary tbh.

@caramac04
>> My well behaved, non-reactive and trained
>> German Shepherd has been attacked by 4
>> different off lead Labrador’s. My dog did
>> not provoke or respond negatively

So right of you to say that ... those Labradors with the random apostrophes have no social skills. They are ruining great breeding stock.

Our neighbours dog has twice attacked one of our dogs - the first time my husband got bitten trying to break them up (but the key here is that he’s not certain which dog it was because ours did try and fight back) our dog was wounded etc and had to go to the vets but when we discussed it with neighbour she was apologetic, new rescue dog etc and we just chalked it up as bad luck and left it as we didn’t want to create tension. Vet bill wasnt anything too hefty. Anyway, it transpired that they can’t secure their garden and a few weeks later it got out and attacked our dog again while she was taking a dump, on her backside and it needed two vet visits as it get infected and she was quite unwell. At this point I called the police as I could sense that this dog perhaps wasn’t getting the tlc it needed. Because we couldn’t prove which dog had bitten my husband they couldn’t issue a fine; a dog attacking another dog isn’t something they fine for either apparently. They did pay a visit and suggest they picked up our vet bills which had risen quite a bit since the first incident and they did follow up. They also said of course that this dog is now on the warden’s register which may not do it any favours in the future.

That makes sense now! Funnily enough my collie and my Mum’s have had bad experiences with black labs, although usually I just see them enjoying themselves in the water.

Wonder why she had it in a trolley, makes you think it has a lot of pent up aggression from not being walked!

Jeez that must have been scary! The police officers you dealt with are clearly twats and the dog is clearly out of control. The woman also sounds unhinged to be pushing a perfectly fit young lab in a trolley! And it doesn’t matter a toss whether it’s a banned/ typically ‘dangerous’ breed or not. Any breed can be dangerous, especially big ones that can overpower humans and other dogs like that.
I’d be filing a complaint if I were you.

You are not unreasonable at all, and I would complain about how the police handled this.

An unpleasant incident, but not much the Police could have done under current law. Try to put it behind you.

The police did attend & speak to both parties & decided on that course of action. That's hardly the same as 'did nothing'
The most effective policing is engaging with both parties & giving words of advice to prevent the problem from recurring.

As a victim of a crime you have a victims right to review - where the decision making is looked at again to see if was the right one.

It does sound like it was an accident - they thought the dogs were attached & under control. They know to double check next time to avoid it happening again.

If there was injury to your dog you could pursue civil action for property damage.