Seriously thinking about leaving the UK - AIBU?

[HonoraBridge]

I love the UK in many ways but it has been going downhill for at least 20 years and it feels as if the speed of the decline is accelerating. I no longer see a happy, or particularly safe, future here. For the first time in my life, I am very seriously thinking about leaving the UK and that feeling gets stronger day by day. When I mention this to friends, many are feeling the same way. YANBU - you are right to think seriously about leaving the UK. YABU - the UK is a still a great country to live in and you are being unreasonable to want to leave.

Norway debt to gdp is 40-50% IIRC.
Better than the UK but much worse than Russia or SA for example (comparable oil economies).

Norway is a Sovereign Economy. More money than debt. They didn't sell off their oil to private companies. Their industry is part state owned. Yes high taxes but their money is used for the country and people enjoy a high standard of living. Worth reading about.

Why are you asking if you’re being unreasonable? It’s up to you if you leave or not.

Most developed countries are dealing with unaffordable housing , ageing populations, fading health infrastructure. Coming up are issues with climate change and food and water security. You might as well live near the people you love as everywhere has problems.

Norway is a Sovereign Economy. More money than debt. They didn't sell off their oil to private companies. Their industry is part state owned. Yes high taxes but their money is used for the country and people enjoy a high standard of living. Worth reading about.

yep

If the UK is so shit, why would billionaires want to live there? And why are they leaving now? Is it because they got away without paying proper tax on their income before? And we let them buy up half of London leaving perfectly decent properties empty 99% of the the time, without penalising this?

We are immigrants with a non uk passport. We were lucky enough to have the qualifications, language skills and job opportunities to choose where to live so we left the Uk as a result of the Brexit vote. Hardly a racist attitude.

Yes, I am enjoying the thread particularly because everyone is talking about Australia, NZ, US, EU so basically the declining West.

Not a single glance outside the box 😁

Right. So the earlier point about people ‘contributing nothing’ is not true.

It’s true that we are in deficit, but 54% being net recipients doesn’t necessarily mean that. Current government policies will mean that we are in surplus again by the end of this Parliament.

I don’t think you’re right about wealth taxes. It’s true that the overall tax burden is historically high for the U.K., but it is low relative to many other countries. And crucially not much of it is raised from wealth. Taxes on income and consumption are much too high, and on wealth are too low.

I don’t understand the point you make about wealth that is tied up in property and pensions. It’s still wealth! And it can still be taxed, in the form of charges if there is a liquidity issue.

I also don’t understand your £1.5m figure. Paying benefits to someone doesn’t make them wealthy.

Of course where people ‘won’t’ work, this is an unfairness. But I suspect almost nobody would disagree with you on that.

But... but do they have pubs??!

Well yeah but happiness is subjective. Finland came top in the happiness league table but if I moved there I’d be a lot less happy, principally because I hate the cold and can’t speak Finnish!

There’s no ‘best country’. I like the U.K. best mainly because I know it, have grown to love it despite its many problems, and most people and places I love are here. But if other people want to live elsewhere, good luck to them. It’s all trade offs and personal preferences. There’s no right answer.

This is 'households' (i,e. families). 10 million retired. 25 million working age (but receiving more in benefits than they pay in tax, so net loss to the country). Basically, more than half the UK contribute nothing, and take off the other half.

But we have always had plenty of people who take more than they put in. It's not a new thing.
Housing has fucked the economy and so has wage stagnation. We never recovered from 08.

True.

Taxes on income and consumption are much too high, and on wealth are too low.

yep,

I don’t understand the point you make about wealth that is tied up in property and pensions. It’s still wealth! And it can still be taxed, in the form of charges if there is a liquidity issue.

agree

I live in a city, we have neighbours that like and look out for each other. My neighbour looks after our cat when we go away. I run without fear of being harassed, the kids aren't going to stab me if I run past them! We have green spaces and forest areas. Parking can be an issue in some places but being in a city means public transport is great. We can literally walk to the shops, restaurants and not have to travel everywhere by car like country bumpkins.

Rentier capitalism has fucked the economy. The extraction of wealth for no economic benefit. From Thames Water to Buy To Let people. Getting rich and producing nothing.

So you want your kids to me immigrants in another country? And you are worried about net migration here? Won't your kids contribute to high net migration to those other countries?

So your unskilled then?

^The UK is broken. 54% of the UK pay no tax.
How many of these are pensioners? We have an aging population^

Pensioners pay no tax in UK?!

Me and my siblings all live in EU. All pensioners. We all pay tax on our pensions - because it's income!

I will definitely leave if Farage wins the next election. Otherwise I'm staying put.

@suburberphobe why do you think all pensioners pay income tax?

Tbh same shit different shovel. Every country has its problems,

The state pension is around £10,000 i.e. below the threshold for income tax which is around £12,000. My partner has a small private pension on top on which he pays tax just like everyone else because his income is over the threshold. Therefore only people who receive just the state pension are non tax payers.