To have this reaction to Netflix’s Adolescence

[Marigoldsold]

This show has really got me and I can’t stop thinking about it.

A show about a murder of a young girl by a young boy.

I have cried over it , I have a little boy myself - I have gone and cuddled him tight after it. The scene at the end , the very last one … I cried like a baby.

What shocked me is that those tears and sadness was for the boy. The murderer.

I don’t think that he didn’t do it , or that the victim deserved it ( obviously ! ) . I don’t think he shouldn’t be in prison etc .

I feel desperately sad that a little boy , who slept with a Teddy , liked drawing and had child’s wallpaper on his walls ended up doing that. That after he did it and his dad knew .. he still reached out to him for comfort. That he was a child .

I think it’s really opened my eyes . We always hear of horrible crimes and pray our child will never be that poor victim and do whatever we can to prevent that. But we never sit and think that actually it could be our child who does that and that is also something we could prevent and should be trying to .

i think it’s the fact the show focused on the murderer rather than the victim and that it wasn’t a child who had been abused and neglected , it wasn’t a child that had had a bad life , it wasn’t a child that was so called “ born evil , it wasn’t a child that had psychotic tendencies or was a ‘ psychopath ‘ .. he was a normal child.

Just looking back on the other posts here, perhaps if you’re not in social media you don’t know the term boy mum
it doesn’t refer to all mums of boys. It’s a type of boy mum.

I also wanted to add that there have been studies that suggest that ‘boy mom’ is a thing and that many women admit to treating their sons differently and loving them more than their daughters. Some studies have hypothesised it’s because mums use their sons to meet the emotional needs that aren’t being met in their other intimate relationships, though this theory is obviously a bit Freudian another theory is that it’s ‘higher status’ to have a boy, and be closer to men. Who knows, but it’s an established idea on social media and in academia

perhaps if you’re not in social media you don’t know the term boy mum
it doesn’t refer to all mums of boys. It’s a type of boy mum

Fair enough. Clearly it’s something I have not come across much though. The terminology or the reality.

It’s great that you haven’t! It’s very toxic and only supports the patriarchy. It would be better if more of us weren’t aware of it!

We don’t deal with the reality of the scale of male violence. People brush all but the most horrific male violence under the rug. They don’t deal with red flags in their own sons. Emotional regulation is unseen labour done largely by women.

I have friends who have 13 year old sons they’ve hidden from behind closed locked doors because they were so afraid of them. They throw things when angry. They take zero responsibility for their actions. They don’t apologise unless through gritted teeth. All would appear very normal middle class families. It gets brushed away as ‘hormones’ because these boys do well in school and are successful on the pitch.

@wizzywig - no, thankfully.

I found it a very interesting watch more from the pov of a mum of 2 boys. 1 nearly 13 and 1 nearly 15 (we have daughters as well). That family could very easily be us. We have experienced our youngest son receiving messages that were completely inappropriate for him. Even though we thought we had tight controls on messaging and social media use. They are tighter now. They've never had insta, snapchat, facebook, TikTok, discord, Reddit. Youtube is accessed only through tv in a family space. WhatsApp was removed after the above incident and they will only be getting it back when we feel they are responsible enough to raise these things happening again.

You are absolutely right that had this been a young black lad, no one would be talking about in the same way.

Everyone seems to be examining the damaging role of internet access but what about the abysmal state of (many) state schools - absolutely toxic environments for our children.

@nolight but a lot of that is being fed from the internet or do you think schools are teaching misogyny? And the state of schools was shown in Adolescence. Schools don’t have the funding (nor the support of many parents) to tackle many of the issues they face

Would be interested in stats / academic articles about young men who commit violent crimes.

It seems likely that this fictional case is inaccurate regarding the offender and the factors affecting him, in order not to reinforce stereotypes and to increase viewing numbers and publicity.

I don’t think the poster meant that schools are teaching misogyny.

I understood that she meant the environment itself is toxic via the bullying culture (which is exacerbated by the nature of institutions) and the doubling down many schools are doing on draconian rules and regulations. Also maybe the ableist attendance policies and denial of access to toilets?

Perhaps she meant that school itself is not set up in a way that supports children to thrive. The insufficient opportunities for movement, strip lighting and lack of access to nature and fresh air?

Perhaps she meant that school itself is a form of coercive control by adults towards children… a place where kids opinions and voices are shut down as a general rule. They are told what to learn and at what time and what’s important in life rather than what’s important to them?

I don’t know, maybe @nolight could clarify?

I am not underplaying the damaging impact of the misogyny spread via the internet (eg via the likes of Andrew Tate), or the role of social media as a negative impact on adolescents.

I am just saying that in my experience there is a big problem with behaviour in mainstream secondary schools. And this has a huge impact on the young people who are trapped in this toxic environment. It is their world. But I haven't seen any mention of this in the media - just the impact of social media/internet.

I am not blaming schools. I worked in one and the staff did the best they could.

X1000

Been on my mind a lot since I watched it

I'm a psychologist and I could not make my way through the psych assessment episode

Too close to home

@nolight but a lot of that behaviour is fuelled by the internet. Our local schools have a huge issue with misogyny and they can see the influence that the likes of Andrew Tate are having. Phones have a huge part to play in bullying type of behaviour be it filming, photos, chat groups etc.

I think it does a good job at humanising him. It's so easy when you hear about a child doing something like this to dismiss them as simply evil/ they did an adult crime so need to do the adult time/ lock them away and throw the key type of mentality- but realistically when a child does something awful it means something has gone very wrong. And when we think about the very adult things our children are exposed to now from such young ages its absolutely terrifying.

Can you link the studies you're talking about? Google seems to show research showing women prefer sons is about 15 years old. The most recent research I can find (still about 8 years old) shows women prefer daughters, and if we're talking social media, go to any thread here on gender disappointment; 9/10 posts relate to devastation at having a son:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6359139/Mothers-prefer-daughters-fathers-prefer-sons-female-bias-stronger-study-says.html

I'd argue the child was neglected. He was loved and in a happy home but the parents weren't paying attention at all.

I think this is the crux of the problem.

Too many parents don’t keep their children close as they get past age 11/12/13+. The influence of peers, school and the internet world becomes more powerful (as it was with Jamie) than the influence of the parents/the family.

Unfortunately our society has manufactured this separation (school and work) and the internet has intensified it.

But remember this is fiction. Yes the parents of boys that have done this are in a terrible place emotionally, but this is a scripted drama reflecting a couple of news stories that the writer/director read.

Can you elaborate? I was thinking bullying anf the need to fit in, must be so hard now because of social media. Before, you at least got a break when you went home. Now it's in your face, constant, for all to see and easy for others to participate in.

@howchildrenreallylearn adolescence is a period of separating from family and leaning on peers, it's necessary to become a stable adult able to interact with others they aren't related to. Of course that doesn't mean parenting stops but it's perfectly normal for there to be a distance that wasn't there in younger years.

Most adults that commit violent crimes have been treated like criminals from childhood. The last thing we need to do is starts treating more children like we think they're capable of murder. I think what kids need more than anything is for the adults around them to keep their heads together and really see what is going on rather than being hysterical about a fictional drama. If people want to do something there are kids in crisis right now, men murdering their partners and young people being excluded from school next week, this is a society we live in. Can blame phones if you want but that's a cop out.

Your perception on this is horribly skewed....despite saying Kate didn't deserve it you say everything that implies that deep down you think she did!
Disturbing!

I think that your reaction is totally understandable. It was designed as a piece of drama to open all our eyes and make us have conversations about the huge risks facing our children.

And it is heartbreaking. I sobbed too - for everyone involved. All victims in their own way (and I don’t condone the boy killing for a moment). We’ve all been taken to a really uncomfortable and scary place.

I don’t think anywhere in my post I have implied that I think she deserved it , not at all.

I said she bullied him . She did , he asked her out and she laughed at him and told him she wasn’t that desperate and then after that she was leaving emojis on his posts that mean he was ugly, he was an incel, he would never get a girlfriend. That is bullying .

I also said that she did not deserve to be killed for that - of course she bloody didn’t , it would be a very disturbing person that said she did!

I said he probably felt humiliated when she pushed him over - because he probably did . I didn’t say she deserved to die for it.

I also don’t think some parts were as deep as they were made out to be .

During the chat with the psychologist he says that after she had the photo shared and people were being horrible to her , he thought she might agree to go out with him ( it made me feel sad when he said he wore his best tracksuit and asked her if she wanted to go to the fair ) - the psychologist kind of puts words into his mouth .. he does say he thinks she might be weaker , I think , but I don’t think he thought of it in a way that was demeaning to her but I think he had such a low opinion of himself that he thought the only way he could get a girl was if there was no other option. That’s his low self esteem. I don’t think he conciously thought “ she’s weak I’m going to take advantage.”

Just like I don’t think she posted those emojis and referred to him as an incel because SHE thought he had tried to take advantage of her at a weak moment. I just think her self esteem was better than his- who knows , we didn’t learn about her , maybe she didn’t have a low opinion of herself and maybe she was bought up different so she didn’t feel she had to settle for just anyone, she knew her worth. She wasn’t attracted to him and he was lower than her in the social hierarchy in school so to her , the thought of her being with him was laughable .

I think in that respect they both saw it in a child like way - he saw himself as less than her and therefore only an option if no one else and she was him as lower than her socially and found it funny that he asked her out .

YANBU. I finished it today, had tears in my eyes at the end too. I have a son, who is just 3. I cant imagine there are many parents that didn't feel much watching this! I really felt for them all.