Breastfeeding, AIBU to think I just can't do it

[ThatNavyFish]

Looking for some advice, support or even just a show of solidarity.

7 weeks postpartum and still struggling to get breastfeeding established. Anyone able to offer any kind words?

Summary: baby latched very badly right at the start, caused some damage to nipples (which healed in a day or two) but had never truly latched properly. Was advised to try shields by HV so started using Medela ones which allowed me to exclusively BF on demand but come week 2 weigh in baby had lost weight. A few days later baby had lost even more, cue a triple feeding plan being put in place. I've been triple feeding since and managing to express between 800-950 MLS over a 24hr period. Baby never seems satisfied after most breastfeeds so usually has a top up via bottle of around 60ml (then I express). Baby has surpassed birth weight again and is thriving.

Assessed as having mild tongue tie but probably not enough to cause issues with draining the breast but still a possibility. I'm unsure about making him go through a procedure if there's no guarantee it will work?

Recently was advised to pull back on the top up bottles and expressing and just feed (with shields) on demand but baby is regularly restless and breasts feeling engorged and sore so back to pumping. If I just stop expressing after doing it 8 times a day for weeks and he isn't feeding efficiently then won't this affect my supply?

I try to latch without shields but cannot do it, he just bobs about and gets angry and I become flustered. Where do we go from here?.aibu to think I just can't do it? I feel like I'm letting him down.

For clarity, all top ups are expressed breast milk. I don't want this to be a debate about bf/formula either, I don't think that would help me right now.

You are not letting him down.
Fed is best! Do what’s best for you as a family, happy mum-happy baby! ❤️

Oh bless you that sounds like a struggle! Lactation consultant if you can afford one and if not then great advice from some online like Kathryn Stagg on Instagram and Facebook https://www.instagram.com/kathrynstaggibclc?igsh=Mjl1MWw0eW1lZW1y

Reduce the extra expressing gradually, otherwise you’ll get engorged, if they’re saying you don’t need to top up feed then if you don’t slow down and stop you’ll have an oversupply and have to keep it up indefinitely. You will continue to make as much as baby needs.

i would get any hint of a tongue tie sorted asap it can make loads of difference.

It’s really tough at the start if there are issues but it definitely will get easier if you stick with it. If it begins to impact your mental health/bond with your baby then that should be prioritised over wanting to keep breastfeeding.

Have you tried using the shields until you've got a good flow going, unlatching the baby and quickly whipping the shields off and carrying on?

Don't be too hard on yourself....
Bit if you're looking for advise and WANT to keep trying to BF: I could only BF my 1st with nipple shields. He didn't latch properly and my breasts were bleeding! I used nipple shields for every feed, always! BF until 15 months!
People kept saying these shields are only for sporadic use but I didn't care, because I wanted to BF and ir worked for us!
(With my 2nd, I never had to use them)
ETA: I had to use the shields during the whole feed, not only at the start.... which I think is not what most people recommend but again that's what worked....

In my experience and most people I know that had issues, midwives are rubbish at diagnosing tongue tie. Both of my babies were aiagnosed at hospital with mild tongue tie that should apparently not have interfered with feeding. Both had issues feeding which were immediately rectified following tongue tie correction from a qualified practitioner who diagnosed it as severe.

If you are happy expressing and baby is more settled having expressed bottles, then do this, I agree if you don’t BF then baby will get used to bottles, which are probably easier to feed on. A lot of people 100% express and bottle feed, so don’t feel you are letting baby down.

Sounds similarish to my older DC. I gave up and formula fed and everyone was much happier! Breastfed DC2 with no problems. Think DC1 just didn't get it.

If the shields are working for you and your baby i thriving, I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to stop using them?

Expressing after breastfeeding increases your supply significantly. It sounds to me like you have an overproduction and over-supply. That's not a serious problem - merely annoying and can be solved by slowly weaning off the expressing. It usually resolves itself around 12 weeks postpartum, when your milk supply is a little better adjusted. In the meantime it sounds to me like you're way over thinking this - using shields, giving your baby an expressed top-up by bottle and solving your slight over-production by taking the edge of with a pump is just fine. You're doing great. I did the same at 7 weeks, and by 12 weeks it wasn't necessary any more (but the ability to still express made it possible for me to leave my baby with his dad for a few hours, which was an added bonus).

It sounds to me like your baby may not be 100% efficient, but his needs are met. You're not letting anybody down - in fact you're fighting the good fight and succeeding. But it's tough on yourself right now, and you do have a choice. You can choose to stop if your feel like you just can't do it and it's detriment to your own mental health and your bonding with your baby. Those are more important - after all, bottle fed babies do just fine, too. You're his mum - only you know what's best for the both of you.

Triple feeding is so hard, I had to do it too and it took most of the day. I know some people exclusively pump and cut out feeding from the breast altogether but I doubt you want to be chained to a pump all day as your baby gets older.

My daughter had a tongue tie procedure at around 7 weeks and while it wasn’t nice to go through it was over in seconds and I do think it made a difference to her latch.

Fed is best. My friend couldn't get the latch no matter emwhat so her daughter was fed expressed breast milk all the way to weaning, a huge achievement. I never got the latch as my son had a malformed tongue from a severe tongue tie so expressed for three weeks til husband went back to work then went to formula. Cried alot of tears that I couldn't breastfeed but my happy healthy boy put that worry to bed and now 19 months later its all a distant memory.

I don’t want to vote or say give up as someone else might have encouragement or advice to spur you on. But if they don’t, please, please please don’t give yourself a hard time if you do give up.

I was you 16 years ago… I put myself through the mill to try and establish feeding. I made myself miserable in the process. I never really knew why it didn’t work. I gave up at around the 7 week mark and felt huge guilt and regret for a long time.

16 years on and she’s had no ill effects from being formula fed. It turned out OK in the end. I did 2 weeks with her brother and gave up much quicker and was much happier. They were healthy happy children and now are healthy happy teens.

You’ve done so so well to get this far. So whatever you decide give yourself a massive pat on the back and be proud of what a wonderful Mum you are. (And will continue to be regardless of how your baby is fed).

Big hugs

You aren't letting him down, you are going above and beyond to try and do what's best for him. But you also need to think of yourself. And if all you are doing is feeding, expressing or worrying about feeding, you aren't going to do your physical or mental well being any good. So by all means persevere for a while if that's what you want. But it's OK to stop if that's what you need to do. I know several mums who really tried to breastfeed for way too long when it wasn't working out.

In terms of advice, I would suggest looking up La Leche League or The Breastfeeding Network to get some more specialist advice over the HV.

I don’t think you can just stop expressing, id maybe express one less time a day, and replace that with a direct feed. Then you can build up.
My baby was gaining weight like crazy (so definitely getting enough) my boobs were often quite hard until about 3-4 months in. So I don’t know if this necessarily means no transfer.
can you start with a bit of a pump, then switch to direct feed so that the milk is already flowing when baby latches. If they’re restless have you tried different positions, checking for gas etc. is there milk in the shield when they’re done (like is it coming out) and are the bottles you’re using slow release ones or fast. I was told they have to work harder with a Shield so baby might be fussing because it’s harder work.
I liked the mam shields, I don’t know whether it would be worth a try of different ones.
youll eventually be able to wean off the shields but it can take a while, I wouldn’t worry about that yet. Don’t do too much at once.
Is there any breastfeeding support in your area, near me there are clinics and drop in centres, one to ones and peer support groups. HV aren’t always trained in breastfeeding so make sure you’re getting advice from different places too. I triple fed for a while, then direct (with shields) and expressing and now we’re 10 months in, off shields and no more expressing. I struggled at the time to find stories of people who had stopped using the shields and I was told repeatedly that they are the ‘beginning of the end’ of feeding. But it wasn’t the case for us.

All that said, if you’re struggling and you don’t want to do this anymore, you don’t have to. You’ve done amazing so far and your baby just needs to be fed, however that works best for you

They always say mild tongue tie. Getting it snipped makes a huge difference. It was like night and day each time for us.

Please be kind to yourself - you've done a brilliant job to get this far. Breastfeeding is really tricky and not enough specialist support is given to mums who wants to breastfeed. If you can afford it, a qualified lactation consultant will probably make such a difference. I breastfed both of mine and struggled so much with the first one and the lactation consultant I found at 8 weeks in helped so much and I breastfed to 16 months. Second DD has been straightforward. It goes without saying that there are lots of benefits to breastfeeding, so continue if you want to - but there is also NO problem with formula (and lots of benefits to it as well, e.g., more freedom for you) so do whatever is right for you, as well as your baby. It

I’ve done triple feeding before and it feels like a full time job.
At week 10 I accepted that I had an extremely low supply of milk and it would never increase so I stopped nursing him. Then I eventually stopped pumping as well.

Considering that you have good enough supply, I would simply pump and stop nursing him. That way your baby will still be getting breast milk.

Do you have very large boobs? I was the same until about 6 weeks when I discovered the Rugby ball hold. Game changer!

You have done amazingly well to get this far. You're not letting your baby down at all.

Like another poster, we used nipple shields the whole time I breastfed my eldest. So 22 months in total. It meant I was breastfeeding and I really wish I had accepted the shields much earlier and not spent so long worrying about trying to get rid of them.

In terms of the pumping you will need to reduce slowly or risk engorgement. So either reducing length of time or frequency or both. Someone like La Leche League or National Breastfeeding Helpline would be able to advise if you called them.

I would also make sure the tongue tie has been assessed by someone qualified to do so. They will feel in baby's mouth and score them on appearance and function. If the score is above a certain number they will automatically offer a snip. If between certain numbers they will only offer if you're having feeding difficulties. I personally would have it done if it shows there is a tongue tie as I think lots of people don't realise the impact they can have on speech development, face shape, oral hygiene etc down the line.

If you want to give the baby breast milk don’t stop feeding them directly yet. It’s sooo much easier than pumping if you can establish it,

I would definitely try and get another opinion on the tongue tie. Midwives and HVs can get very limited training on this. It’s worth getting a bit of help here and see if you can figure it out. You’re fairly good situation to sort oy with a bit of help because you have a good supply and the baby is latching with the shields.

I’d try to see an experienced tongue tie practitioner. And there are some very experienced midwife practitioners.

Some tongue ties can appear extreme but in fact they don’t affect feeding while some apparently mild ties impact it hugely.

An experienced practitioner will observe a feed and offer you a procedure (or not) only after this observation and supporting your positioning. Sometimes it’s a subtle but important change in positioning that can make all the difference. But a tongue tie release, when indicated, can change the whole process of breastfeeding in moments.

I really hope you get the right support soon.

Ok sorry in advance - I have a long one but I hope the tips and ideas I’m going to share are going to change every thing for you just as they did for me - and I vowed to share them with anyone who struggled as I did and you are now. These tips have helped friends and friends of friends so I hope they help you and anyone else reading this post - but of course this is just my lived experience of what worked for me.

Reading your post I felt like it could have been me 3 and a half years ago. I went on to breastfeed for 19 months!

But at first I just couldn’t breastfeed and I tried and tried. I had experts come over and talked to heath visitors - nothing worked (and I was actually given conflicting information which lead to it really not having a chance to get established) - until I read up on how breastfeeding actually works.

I had been told to top up feed, and do ‘best of both’ but the truth is the more you top up with formula at the beginning, the harder it is to establish your own production because your body needs to experience those feeds from your baby which acts to put in the ‘order’ to your body about how much milk is needed. If baby has one feed with formula, your body doesn’t get that order and so a few days later, doesn’t produce that feed of milk. You get stuck in a downward spiral towards lower and lower production so you need more and more top ups. This isn’t a problem when your milk is established and you get months down the line towards eating solid foods, but for now at 7 weeks, my experience was ‘topping up’ will eventually lead to having to give up on breastfeeding.

The question I think you should ask yourself now, with compassion is: do you want to give up? Or do you want to breastfeed?

Breastfeeding is one of the HARDEST parts of being a mum (and being a mum is effing HARDWORK) and I guarantee no man could do it. It’s exhausting, it hurts and it doesn’t work automatically. I get it. If it’s getting in the way of you being a happy healthy mum, there is no shame at all in switching to formula only or just seeing how long you get on doing both for whilst taking that pressure off and see every day you continue breastfeeding as a bonus, rather than something you have to fix. Fed is best and your happiness and wellbeing is allowed to be a priority!!!

BUT. If you want to make it work - and you are determined and happy to put in some work, then it’s my experience that you absolutely can exclusively breastfeed, even if you are struggling now. All you need to do is trust in your body and biology, and work with the science of it. Here’s what I did incase it helps. At 6 weeks I decided that I wanted more than anything to exclusively breastfeed. I realised I was trapped in the downward spiral of top ups, so I decided to stop the top ups even though I was REALLY struggling. I did this by:

• having a ‘baby moon’ - laid in bed for two days with both me and baby in our pants/nappy doing skin on skin and feeding non stop. I recruited my mum and husband to stop their lives and wait on us hand and foot bringing tea and food in bed. I saw these two days as an investment of time and work - it was my sole job to breastfeed - skin on skin to boost oxytocin, and feeding on demand to give my body those orders for milk. Then, by day three my milk supply SIGNIFICANTLY improved and my body started to deliver those orders that my baby had put in during our days in bed. I look back on those days with fondness now - my only job was to breastfeed- the house could be messy - the rest of the family fended for each other and themselves and I just read and binged box sets while my baby fed and slept.
• I used every contraption under the sun - nipple guards, balm, Hakka - it’s not fun but it’s not forever and when your milk is established all the nipple drama eases off!
• I did not pump. Don’t even put that pressure on yourself right now. Just get your milk established to the level your baby needs rather than additional pressures.
• be a relentless latch teacher! If it’s not good, unlatch and start again. Your nippled and your baby deserve a good latch - stay consistent! (I defo let mine slip but with some persistence it got better!)
• dont be fooled that this should be easy. Nature isn’t always natural and easy. Sometimes nature is hard work, just watch a David attending documentary! As your baby grows you’ll have other days where they might seem as if they aren’t satisfied and they will cluster feed and you’ll think god I don’t have enough milk but that’s nature working - baby needs more milk, they up their feeds and put in the milk orders by signalling through these feeds to your body and your body responds 2-3 days later and delivers the feeds.

• AND here’s a key trick if you just can’t fathom giving up the formula which is where I was weeks 2-6 before I went cold turkey - put your formula into an open bottle and get a feeding tube that is used for premature babies - you can get them on Amazon. Start to feed by your Boob And then slip the feeding tube into the bottom of their mouth keeping the bottle of formula upright but above the baby’s mouth level. As they suck in your nipple the formula will be sucked into their mouths so they will get the feed but your body will still be getting that all important order of milk and will respond a few days later - doing this means you avert the upset of feeling your baby is upset and hungry whilst still working towards establishing your milk and not getting involved in that downward spiral. The two day flood of skin on skin is super important too!

if this sounds too much don’t despair! Maybe the question above has been answered for you - you get to decide what is best for you and your baby! There is no pressure to do any of this. But if like me it was something you wanted to crack, then give it a go! Good luck OP!!! You’ve got this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My partner (same sex) had a baby a few weeks ago. I bfed all my older ones. Everything was against the new baby bfding, tongue tie, nicu stay, mum lost blood and then was ill, then jaundice, lack of weight gain and top ups of formula as she still wasn’t producing milk. Once the jaundice was clear and the baby gained weight after 6 weeks, the next steps would have been a couple of weeks triple feeding to get her supply established.

We got a perfect prep machine and formula fed. Baby has thrived, mum is fine.

Sorry edit - with the feeding tube I said slip it into the bottom of the babies mouth - I meant the side of the mouth - as they are latched. A breastfeeding expert will be able to show you this in person!

Give yourself some credit, you're doing a brilliant job! It can be really hard for the first few weeks.

I fed both mine for 15 months, first baby needed nipple shields the whole time, second one got the hang of feeding without them about three months in. There's no issue with continuing to use them if they make the latch easier. If you're reducing expressing do it gradually or you will likely get mastitis.

Definitely see if you can get a second opinion on the tongue tie, it could easily be more of a problem than it seems. If you can express that much you obviously don't have a supply problem, so it's more likely to be something like an issue with the latch. If you have a breastfeeding consultant locally it would probably be worth the money for some expert help.

Above all don't let it stop you enjoying your lovely baby.

Go private and get the tongue checked. I was in absolute agony feeding, baby lost 10% of weight by 5 day check! I went private as was desperate to BF, he had it cut and honestly the difference was insane! He regained the weight so quickly and BF til 21 months when he reluctantly was weaned 🤣 pleas check tongue again, my sons was missed by 2 midwives and health visitor and his was a severe tie!