Middle class men are more likely to actively parent?

[Bananapancakes00]

Just based on observations of people I know, on average, middle class men are more likely to share childcare duties, especially of babies, when not working. Whereas working class men tend to believe it's the woman's job to look after young children. Not saying either is better, just a difference in attitudes and social norms. Aibu?

My ex was working class and fucked off entirely. No cards, no child support, no interest.

My own dad is middle class and was very present.

So, that’s my input.

Someone's 'class' has no impact on their ability to be a good parent nor how much actual 'parenting' they will do.

Depends on the man

I know working class guys who are active parents and then there are middle class guys who work all the time and expect the wife to give up her career and become a SAHM so he can have the important job

Not saying either is better, just a difference in attitudes and social norms

Well, one is definitely better, IMO.
I don’t think it is as simple as working or middle class. Whether the mother works (full time, part time), cultural differences also come into it.
I can understand that if the mother is a SAHP and the father work full time as the sole income earner then naturally the mother is more likely to parent. This may suit the both parents well.

There are good Dads.
There are bad Dads.
There are ok Dads.
Class is irrelevant.

Hmm, I'm not sure.

I do wonder if middle class men are more likely to absent themselves in more subtle ways e.g. working long hours, disappearing off to their home office to avoid bathtime etc. As opposed to going down the pub, football every weekend etc.

But then again, look at all those middle age, middle class men in lycra on their bikes and doing triathlons while the mother is at home looking after the children.

I don't think you can generalise based on class.

Middle class people in general have far more time.

I live in a very working class area (a huge council estate) and it's unusual to see men taking their children out alone without mum present. Whereas, when I'm shopping in a nearby middle class area it's quite normal to see men on their own with babies strapped to them and a toddler or two in tow.

Rubbish

It is probably true that in middle class professions there is more autonomy and scope for flexible working. It is very common for my male colleagues to schedule their working day around their childcare, in the same way I do. Family in more working class industries have zero flexibility.

I disagree

MC men may be more career focused and think that paying a wife to SAH absolves them of parenting duties.

Also they may be more likely to think that paying for cleaners, Nannies etc absolves them of more parenting duties.

I suspect that growing up with dads who did their fair share makes men more likely to emulate that behaviour and there’s no class divide with that.

It is possible that MC women are more likely to tell prospective partners that they will continue their careers post kids and therefore the dad will have to do stuff like the nursery run where as WC mums are more likely to work around their partner and go part time

I think that's complete bollocks.

There are very hands on men from all classes and men who are absolute shirkers from all classes. Someone's class is no indicator whatsoever of whether they are a reliable, committed and hands-on parent.

What is true is that a a more educated man is probably more exposed to progressive parenting theories than one who hasn't been to university. And that a certain sort of middle class progressive man positions himself more as being a "new dad" because it plays better with the social mores of his social group. Whether or not he actually walks the walk as well as he talks the talk no one other than his spouse will know.

I've known a lot of very middle class men with impeccable progressive credentials who bang on about feminism and sharing domestic roles etc and several of them have fecked off when their heads were turned or found "creative projects" that take them away from home for weeks.

That's not to say all middle class men are shit dads, some are wonderful parents. But don't judge a book by its cover.

I m in Ireland, we all parent, all that procreation!!! . We are less class obsessed, all these divides don't exist as much. However the people in more deprived areas with less formal education, it seems to me, everyone pulls their weight parenting wise, and at least to the same extent as middle class parents who work in professional roles.

Present and absent parents in every walk of life.

It starts at pregnancy . Working class couples often have very matriarchal mother in the mix. They takes the fathers spot at some of the scans. They are there at the labour often pushing the father out of the way. They are there all the time in the early days of baby being born taking over. It’s not a good start for the dads who are pushed out of the way. No wonder they are less hands on.

The best thing that ever happened to us as a family was my having a terrible labour and being limited in what I could do in the aftermath and my mother being ill in the first couple of weeks of our first borns life. My DH had to do everything. He Probably would have been hands on anyway but it did set the tone for the future.

This. You can have fantastic working class parents - I've come across 100s. Engaged, supportive, valuing education. Some middle class ones lazy and entitled.
It's the individual, not their socio economic situation.

I think people saying your statement is snob or class is irrelevant, have not been on both sides for long. I have and, with exceptions of course, you’re 100% right, and it has f* all to do with free time, but with societal expectations. Again, generalising, but it’s how it mostly works in my experience

Just based on observations of people I know

Oh that was worth telling us about 🤣🤣

I can’t talk about everyone. But in my generation (I’m a millennial) men in general are more hands on than my father’s generation were. DH is hands on, my brother is hands on.

I disagree, I think a lot of MC men have their ‘big’ jobs and important hobbies (cycling).

I think it is true to an extent - not that it is true 100% of the time of course but there is a correlation

I think some of it is because middle class men are more likely to have careers where they can be more flexible, WFH etc, rather than shift work

And also the matriarchal mother phenomenon too - many working class women seem to have a relationship with their mum where she steps in and does the second parent role more than the dad does

I actually think that in general gender roles are more deeply entrenched in both working class and upper class families and the middle class are much more equal in their working and parenting roles.

A lack of money pushes working class parents into old fashioned gender roles because money buys freedom. Then at the other end of the spectrum upper class parents with lots of money are so free that women don't need to work at all if they don't want to and this tends to bring out traditional gender roles as women can choose to be SAHMs then ladies of leisure once the children go to school. Middle class parents have enough money to buy freedom through child care and extra curricular activities but not enough money to nope out of work completely so end up 50/50 workload split where both parents work and parent equally.

This is what I have observed anyway.

In my very MC area the dads are generally very involved and hands on parents. Loads of dads at school drop off and pick up, parties and activities. More mums, but then the major of dads work full time and mums part time. However, a decent amount of dads have reduced or flexed hours to some degree. I agree a lot of MC dads tend to have wfh jobs where it’s easier to be more present than someone doing 12 hour factory shifts or long days on a building site for example.

I think there’s probably a lot of truth to this.

And the point about working class matriarchal mothers also.

My DH grew up on a council estate as is the most amazing husband and Dad in my eyes. He idolises our DD and loves to spend 1 on 1 time with her. Every weekend, I get a lay in, breakfast cooked for me and a few hours to myself in the afternoon whilst DH takes DD swimming, to the park or another activity. He runs me baths, gets home from 12 hour days (runs his own business in a trade) and cooks dinner a couple of times a week, takes turns doing bath time with DD if he’s home in time, always has time to read her a story. My Dad also grew up on a council estate in London in the 60s and has always been a very present and loving Father. My Stepmum is a Nanny to a middle class family (30 years experience around the same middle class friendship group/recommendations etc) and makes it no secret of the fact that the Dad’s she’s worked with see their kids for a few hours at the weekend because they are working, at golf/tennis/meals out. That being said, I don’t think class dictates what kind of parent you’ll be.