Middle class men are more likely to actively parent?

[Bananapancakes00]

Just based on observations of people I know, on average, middle class men are more likely to share childcare duties, especially of babies, when not working. Whereas working class men tend to believe it's the woman's job to look after young children. Not saying either is better, just a difference in attitudes and social norms. Aibu?

I mean surely that's self selecting because a single parent is living off one income so way less likely to live near a upper class school (presumably Surrounded by expensive houses) for purely financial reasons.

I think also linked to that, subconsciously knowing your wife earns enough that she doesn't need you probably makes husbands realise they need to pull their weight

We live in a MC village and my children all had sports activities at the weekends. I would say it was very much the WC Dads who were running the football club,organising tournaments and it was generally the Dads from both backgrounds cheering their children along at matches etc .
I really don’t think you can generalise. Obviously Dads who have flexible jobs,wfh are more likely to drop children off at school and attend sports day etc.

I think maybe WC mums are more likely to find that work doesn't pay so stay at home which means gender roles become more entrenched?

what a load of stereotypical bullshit

I come from a working class background but most of my friends now are middle class. I don’t think it’s class or modelled behaviour, I think it’s values and the circles you move in.

My cousins and my cousins husbands are very present hands on dads, none of us had dads like that but we want better for our kids and we have strong family values. Equally I’ve got plenty of middle class friends whose husbands do very little.

My husband (similar background) and I plan to share parental leave and have already set up our flexible working ready. He’s excited to be a dad, if he wasn’t like that I wouldn’t have married him. None of my friends have similar arrangements and they think it’s wild, my family think it’s a no brainer he’d want to spend as much time as possible with his child when they’re here.

My husband is working class and a very hands on dad, so was my dad, and his dad, and our grandads. So no I don't agree with you. I think it depends entirely on the man and the examples they were shown growing up by the men in their lives.

Ok, I’ll bite:

my DP had 3 kids already when I met him. He had them 50:50 and was a great dad, but when with his ex she didn’t want to work (literally never has worked full time as she had their first child whilst a uni student when they were both young). As a working class dad he was expected to go to work at 7am get back at 6 and she could stay home. He hated it and so went to university, got out of the manual labour trade he was in and was able to see the kids more and be more like a middle class dad because he could work from home and be present in their lives.

another take on it is is that having met me (I’m certainly middle class though definitely not upper) he has taken on a lot more middle class style parenting. I certainly think there’s some truth in that but I actually think my DP was always a doting father, he just wasn’t able to be the middle class dad taking the kids everywhere whilst he was on crappy working class wages and out the whole day (and sometimes weekends) trying to earn enough for the whole family. Plus his ex had the working class expectation that all he really provided was money and that she was the only parent who actually mattered or should have a say in things. Essentially, I think there’s expectation that dads don’t do much was hers rather than what he wanted. Now they’re separated he loves the time with his children and is a fully committed dad to our DS too and we regularly have his eldest for more than 50% of the time, so no it’s not just 50% of the time that he steps up, it’s all of the time.

No idea but my own dad was very middle class, and he did sod all and f* off when I was a baby - no contact ever! My partner/baby dad is working class and very annoyingly does believe it’s the woman’s job (my mental and physical load is in tatters) despite being fantastic with dd and she adores him! I’m middle class and believe it should be a 50/50 partnership

Yes, that is true as well I suspect.

In my region, it's quite common for working class men to work away from home for long periods. Historically a lot went to sea, but also lumber camp work and the military - some still do these jobs. More recently men traveled for trades jobs to areas of higher growth, though not as much now, and currently many work at large mines or with oil extraction in the North.

Mums, grandmothers, and aunts have in the past tended to hold down the fort, though in modern times I see a lot of grandfathers doing it too - some of whom worked away when their own kids were small. My father and my husband both worked away, my husband for about six months of the year, and when I was young my father was at sea for nine months a year though that reduced to six later on.

That's absolutely going to impact patterns.

There was a study a few years ago, actually working class men did more, largely because they had fewer options, both parents were more likely to work, whereas in middle class families more often the father increased his work hours and pay after having children and mothers reduced there’s to pick up the slack. Grandmothers were more likely to do childcare regularly than fathers. The conclusion was that men tended to do as little as they could.

I would say that sexist gender roles were also much more present in the working class schools, unfortunately.

Dads aren't expected to stick around, but they could have several children with different women.

If they did work, it was manual.

Thought they were macho.

Lots of tattoos and grey tracksuit bottoms.

The women were much more likely to work in beautician or childcare jobs.

Dolled up with fake hair and nails etc, for parents' meetings. Constantly on phones.

I found a very defensive and sometimes hostile attitude from those parents, even when giving their child a glowing report.

Stereotypes are just generalizations, which is to say, statistical statements about patterns that apply to groups, rather than individuals.

Which is totally appropriate when discussing a group.

^ this

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My two sons are tradesmen and they are fantastic Dads, very involved with their children.

I disagree.

The working from home is not so relevant as it’s a new post Covid phenomenon whereas the change in fathers’ roles to be more hands on with parenting pre-dates this by quite some time.

Disagree that middle class have more time. Time depends on the job you have (if you have one whether mc or wc), the hours yours work, what you chose to prioritise etc.

When I used to do the school run we seemed to have Dads with both Working & Middle Class jobs.

I had my last two in my late 40's but at Canoe Club there were a few Dads with kids the same age as mine who were entitled to call me 'Sonny' and mums of similar vintage to me.

Depends on the dad I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

When I was little (up until around the time I started secondary school), my dad had a manual labour job where he worked shifts and every out of overtime god sent…..simply because he had to make ends meet. We didn’t see all that much of him day to day, but when he was around he got stuck in and was a very hands-on, present father.
To this day, I’d say I’m closer to my dad than my mum.

I disagree. I know wonderful and awful dads from
both backgrounds. I know many working class men who are extremely active parents and many middle class men who much prefer to work late, golf or cycle than care for their own children leaving it solely to their wives.

I'm not sure what class my husband would be seen as but he was a very hands on father. His father was middle class and wasn't really. To be honest I have known middle class fathers to be hands-off and working class ones very hands on.

I think it is reasonably true on balance but obv not a general rule. I have a lot of contacts across classes as we live/go to school in a mixed area but my work environment is exclusively middle class. Among my middle class contacts the woman is just as likely to be the main breadwinner as the man, and from what I know childcare/housework is usually either shared or skewed towards the lower earner regardless of sex. I don’t know anyone among more working class/lower paid contacts where this is the case, the women who do work full time tend to complain a lot about having to do all of the childcare/housework alongside their jobs. Anecdotal though so may not mean anything.

My Dad was working class and left nearly everything parent related to mum, but having said that it worked well and I had a happy childhood. Mum worked part time as a partner in my dad's self employed business. My DH was also brought up working class, though we are now middle class. I went part time and did nearly everything parenting related. Again, I think it's worked well, though I suppose you'd have to ask my kids if they agree. I think DH and I put in equal effort, just on different things, he works and earns and does a few DC related things at weekends / holidays. I work but fewer hours and parent every day. There is mutual respect between us for what we both contribute, I think that's important.

My DH is quite MC, works very long hours in the City and doesn't really see the kids at all in the week. He's loving and plays games etc on the weekend but my own Ddad (WC) was around more so went swimming after school/work etc. My GPs were quite poor so my grandma would work in the evenings and grandad would cook dinner/do homework etc as he was on solo duty.

I do also think DH outsources things as money isnt an issue so he'll take them out to eat or get takeaway if i go out for dinner vs cooking for them.